Goodness - Free Will - Harry (Harry's good core)

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 117534


Siriusly Snapey Susan wrote:
>> Sometimes when a person does X, he ends up feeling good [as in, 
rewarded, "right," warm & fuzzy inside], and this can be a positive 
reinforcement for the behavior in question.  Intrinsic reward, you 
know?  I maintain that for many people is simply feels good to do 
good.  Harry may have found that sharing with Ron, for instance,
made him feel good about himself.  And he liked feeling good about 
himself, particularly after years of being told that he's 
worthless.  This kind of positive experience might well motivate 
future action.<<

 
Carol responds:
> As I read this thread (and I admit I'm still catching up here and 
> may have missed something), the question is why Harry shared with 
> Ron in the first place. I agree that feeling good about sharing 
> was a kind of reward ("positive reinforcement") that would lead 
> him to want to do the same thing again, but I don't think he could 
> have anticipated that feeling. 


SSSusan:
You're right that the original question was more along the lines of 
why would he ever have tried something like sharing with Ron?  But 
if you follow the thread back up near to the top, you'll see that I 
attempted to address this once before.  

The positive reinforcement thing I've mentioned here is one aspect 
of learning behavior, but it's not the only.  Part of learning is 
also *identifying* with others and *modeling* their behavior.  Think 
about teenagers and Britney Spears--being like her is certainly not 
something most parents likely positively reinforce.  Or the little 
boy who starts carrying around tools because the next door neighbor 
carries tools & works on the house all the time.  When we're talking 
about a kid in an ugly situation growing up, as Harry was, I think 
the common expectation is that he will identify with those who are 
picking on him and become a bully himself, but that's NOT always the 
case, which was my point.  

Heaven only knows WHY it is, but some kids will identify with people 
outside the situation--with people they would much rather be like. I 
used my own dad as an example.  His dad was an alcoholic who didn't 
take care of his family.  One reaction would be to be just like 
him.  Another, the one my dad took, is to look for OTHER WAYS OF 
BEING outside the models in one's immediate family.  This is what I 
think Harry did.  

Perhaps he didn't like being bullied, being made fun of.  Perhaps he 
saw the Dursleys as selfish, nasty people and he didn't want to be 
like them.  I mean, the kid went to school, where there were surely 
all types of people amongst the kids & teachers.  It's not likely 
that he was never exposed to any other way of being.  Sometimes I 
think people analyze things as if Harry grew up in a vacuum.  He did 
not.  He went to school, he visited Mrs. Figg, he played out of 
doors.  There were other people around him besides just the Dursleys.


Carol:
> We know that Harry saw very little sharing at the Dursleys (who
> constantly gave the ungrateful Dudley whatever he wanted but 
> received nothing in return, certainly not respect or affection), 
> and he had no friends of his own at school, but I would be quite 
> surprised if he hadn't witnessed friends sharing with each other 
> at school and receiving mutual pleasure. If so, he may have 
> unconsciously stored up such memories as reflecting something that 
> he wanted for himself.  On the train with Ron, he suddenly had an 
> opportunity to experience that pleasure. He wouldn't need to feel 
> good *about himself* to want to repeat the experience: 

SSSusan:
Exactly what I'm saying about having seen it in others.  But I don't 
understand the downplaying of his feeling good about himself after 
doing so.  He'd likely seen it in others, yes, and decided to take 
the same action once he had something to share.  That's modeling.  
But the feeling good about the experience part is the positive 
reinforcement.  It's REINFORCEMENT, as in *strengthening* the 
behavior.  

I clearly didn't do a very good job of explaining this initially, 
but learning behavior is often a multi-faceted thing, and I was 
trying to say that I don't think it's that difficult to understand 
why Harry would have learned to do good things.  It would have been 
EASILY understood if he'd learned not to, because he was so 
surrounded with negative role models and negative experiences, but 
it isn't impossible to comprehend that he would learn to do so 
either, because he wasn't in a "Dursley Vacuum."  All it would have 
taken was having seen enough goodness or altruism outside that house 
to have decided to try a bit himself.  The positive reinforcement 
then adds to the experience.
  
Not to mention the idea that nobody came to HIS aid--perhaps he 
decided he'd like to do the opposite for others.

Siriusly Snapey Susan