Muggle World (Was: Quills)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 117670


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "manawydan" <manawydan at n...> wrote:
> >>Carol wrote
> >>I still think the closest equivalent is the academic gowns worn by
> >>students at Oxford--not the modern version but the one that was worn
> >>from the thirteenth through the nineteenth centuries to distinguish
> >>the students (and faculty)from the ordinary townspeople--Town and
> >>Gown.
> 
> >Potioncat:
> >Where would the rest of us find a picture or description of that?
> 
> Here's a catalogue with some of them in
> 
> http://www.shepherdandwoodward.co.uk/acatalog/sitemap.html
> 
> and a description of all of them
> 
>
http://www.all-science-fair-projects.com/science_fair_projects_encyclopedia/Academic_dress_of_Oxford_University
> 
> (takes me back a good few years!)
> 
> I also had a mental picture of something like Oxbridge gowns when I
read about Hogwarts robes, though (from having worn a commoner's gown)
it wouldn't keep you very warm (or modest) without something
underneath. Possibly they are somewhat more "monkish" and all-enveloping.
> 
> Also interesting to speculate whether the idea of having different
> ceremonial gowns also applies in the WW: whether Madam Malkin has a
> catalogue of patterns for the purpose...
> 
Carol responds:
I specifically didn't provide that first link because it shows the
modern, open-front, sometimes short gowns. The older gowns (12th to
19th century) could have been worn with nothing under them--rather
like a priest's cassock. But I haven't been able to find what I'm
looking for on the Internet yet, though I've done several Google
searches. I agree that the Hogwarts robes, like the earlier academic
gowns, have to be "monkish and all-enveloping," as the purebloods
apparently wear either underwear or nothing at all underneath them.
Underwear as we know it is a relatively modern invention. A woman
might wear a garter belt and stockings or a man a codpiece (neither
very necessary under a closed robe, but "linens" and "drawers" (or
whatever) are 18th-century innovations and probably came late to the
WW. (Corsets are of course much older, but it's not likely they'd be
worn under Hogwarts robes in any case.)

Madam Malkin does state that she has robes for all occasions. Possibly
she sells patterns as well, though we don't see Molly sewing her
children's robes, so maybe Madam M. doesn't want the competition. At
any rate, what the students wear to the Yule Ball seems to be
completely different from their usual uniforms, and what Dumbledore
wears differs radically from Snape's black robes and cloak. Even he
wears dress robes to the feasts, which may or may not be black, and a
green robe to at least one Quidditch final. But one and all, I'll bet,
are floor-length and closed all around.

I still can't find the kind of academic gown I'm looking for, but I
did find this page with various links related to the history of underwear:

http://directory.google.com/Top/Recreation/Living_History/By_Topic/Costumes/Undergarments/

Well, there's this, which sort of gives the idea, but without the hood
and the fancy trim. Maybe this is the DE's idea of a dress robe:

http://www.zoogstercostumes.com/r16551.html

Carol, still unable to find what she's looking for and with no time to
 find it