The length of the Pensieve Scene

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 118183


Carol earlier:
> > ...
> > As far as I can see, Severus is doing nothing wrong in the early 
> > part of the memory. He is writing detailed exam answers and then 
> > studying the questions to be sure he got them right. For some 
> > reason, the DADA exam was very important to him, and this 
> > information is an integral part of the memory, both from Snape's 
> > perspective and from JKR's.
> > 
> > I see nothing suspicious in Snape's actions here. They're both
> > natural and in character. (I do think he may have wanted a good 
> > reason to and the Occlumency lessons, which clearly weren't
working, but that's another topic.) I think Snape is angry that Harry
has seen him humiliated, angrier still that he has violated his
privacy and shown himself untrustworthy, and perhaps afraid that Harry
has seen 
> > the other memories that he deposited in the Pensieve as well.
> 
> 
"curlyhornedsnorkack" responded:
> Even if we do leave out the characteristics of the pensieve, on
which we don't agree, (and not everyone seems to either, and I'm not
> interested in discussing it any further for the foreseeable future)
> Snape's actions are still suspicious. Can you address the
character's motives for taking advantage of a beautiful day to sit in
a dense shade? Why didn't he set off for a nicer place, most likely
the shade of the tree under which the Marauders settled, if he was
unaware of them? Or why didn't he sit closer to the girls?

<snip> What is a person like Snape, disliked by many and
> embattled by the talented but cruel Marauders, someone who's used to
> having to defend himself on a regular basis, doing absent-mindedly
> wandering around? I agree that Snape's actions are natural and in
> character, which is why I enjoy JKR's work. But his actions can also
> be those of a sneak. 
> 
> I agree completely that Snape felt humiliated, angry that Harry
> violated his privacy and is afraid of what else Harry saw. (I don't
> think Snape is angry that Harry has proved himself untrustworthy,
> since Snape wouldn't trust Harry in any way.)<snip> 

Carol responds:
Since you ask, I don't think he was paying any attention to where he
was sitting. After all, he had his nose pressed to the parchment on
which he was writing earlier and was writing detailed responses in a
tiny hand. Now he's reading the exam paper closely, trying to make
sure he got everything right and left nothing out. I don't see
anything beyond obsession with his DADA mark; nothing sneaky about it.
(I've been where he is, wholly oblivious to my surroundings, wrapped
up in a book or an essay I was writing or my own thoughts.) And as I
said and you conceded, it's in character for him. It *wouldn't* be in
character for loner Snape to sit down with the girls or with MWPP. If
he had they'd have startled him out of his reverie.

And I do think it's important that the memory is not, AFWK, under the
control of the person who remembers it. Harry can wander around in it
and see and hear things that Severus didn't see and hear, just as he
is hearing and seeing things that DD didn't in the earlier Pensieve
scene, notably DD himself and Moody's mumbled words. What Harry does
not see is what is directly in front of their eyes, e.g., the exact
words that Severus is reading or writing. And he is definitely not
inside their heads, as he would be in a subjective memory.

Besides, if Snape could and did change the memory to make himself look
innocent, as you seem to imply, why would he be angry that Harry saw
the memory? I think Harry saw what really happened--more than Severus
himself saw and heard--and Snape is angry at the violation of his
private memory and the revelation of his humiliation at Harry's
father's hands. I do think, based on Snape's willingness actually to
praise Harry, or at least acknowledge that he did something right,
that he was starting to respect him. He knew, for example, that Harry
had not taken the gillyweed or the polyjuice potion ingredients from
his office as he quite naturally suspected in GoF. I think that
despite Harry's continued dislike of him and his failure to cooperate,
Snape was trying to work with him, and that his anger, when it flared
up, resulted from Harry's failure to recognize his danger and fight
temptation. So when Harry again violated his trust, Snape was
excessively angry because Harry was not, in his view, worthy of his
respect after all. That's just my view, of course.

But Snape as sneak? I don't see that anywhere.

"curlyhornedsnorkack":
 
> I was wondering what you meant when you said 
> > "DADA exam was very important to him, and this information is an 
> > integral part of the memory, both from Snape's perspective and
from JKR's."
> 
> Is there a JKR quote that goes along with this about this scene?

Carol responds:
I was responding to the idea at the beginning of this thread that the
scene was too long, and that the first part of the memory isn't
necessary. I think it *is* necessary to establish Severus's reasons
for being so absorbed in the exam paper that he doesn't see MWPP or
anyone else. He has what ought to be the comfort of knowing that he
was the innocent victim of a two-pronged assault, so that part of the
memory would be important to him, but it's also important to JKR or
she wouldn't have put it inn. It's that portion of the memory, after
all, that leads Harry to sympathize with Severus and to disapprove of
his father and Sirius. That's what I meant by JKR's perspective: her
point, her purpose in including the memory, would be incomprehensible
without that first segment. 

I also find it interesting that young Severus, who was stigmatized by
the adult Sirius Black for his interest in the Dark Arts, is
intrigued, or rather obsessed, with *Defense Against* the Dark Arts,
Harry's own best subject if he could only find a competetent teacher.
You'd think it would be Dark Arts-hating James who was pressing his
nose against the parchment squeezing the answers in, but he's more
interested in Lily and tossing around a Snitch and transfiguring into
a stag so he can run with a werewolf.

Carol