Unfortunate!Peter

[Sharon]

No: HPFGUIDX 118259


As I'm still on moderated status, my posts have been a bit slow 
coming through, so I apologize for that first of all.  Trust me, I've 
been waiting with bated breath for a continuance in the conversation!

Thus, I'm also including some of charme's replies to Kneasy's 
original post in here.

Kneasy:
> I'm not so sure about that. Both of the Pensieve scenes we've 
> viewed so far present the action as it would be seen by a disinterested 
> observer able (unlike Snape) to monitor conversations he could not possibly 
> hear in reality. Is it the objective truth or is it an extrapolation 
> based on how Snape feels or what he knows about the Marauders?


Disinterested?  Are we sure?  I've always felt that those Pensieve 
scenes, while they may show more than the person to whom the memory 
belongs, are still influenced by that person.  I'm not saying that 
the scene is an extrapolation of diferent events - I mean, it really 
did happen - Sirius and Remus admit as much later on, and they 
certainly don't deny anything that happened.  But Harry also didn't 
get a chance to tell either of them anything but the bare bones of 
what occured - nor did Sirius or Remus question him on any details 
(other than James and the Snitch).  While the events themselves 
happened, I think, having resided for so long in Snape's memory, they 
would have taken on a certain...shall we say, Snapey flavor?  

The same with the other Pensieve scenes.  We saw the Wizengamot 
trials from Dumbledore's viewpoint, with Dumbledore's specific 
memories.  And the image of Bertha Jorkins that pops out is how 
*Dumbledore* saw her - and is certainly part of a larger memory which 
he chooses not to share.

(Appropros to nothing, I always figured that the boy Bertha was 
talking about was Peter.  But that's just me.  And I half wonder that 
he wasn't the one eavesdropping on Trelawney's Lost Prophecy as 
well.  But I am a great Peter Conspiratist, and tend to see him 
everywhere.)

<snip>

Kneasy:
> The apparent absence of Peter is unexpected if the Marauders were 
> as tight as we believe. Full moon has arrived, Lupin has loped off to 
> the Shack, just wait for things to quieten down and the Marauders will 
> be romping round the countryside. Yet there seems to be a gap in the 
> ranks. Where's Peter? Good question - unless it happened in the 
> interregnum between James and Sirius mastering the Animagus spell 
> and Peter catching up with them - or indeed in the early years before 
> any of them became animagi. Oh, for a solid time-frame!
 


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't we have a solid time frame at one 
point?  I could have sworn The Prank happened in their fifth 
year...but to go back to the Pensieve Scene, I sort of doubt that it 
occured before their OWLs (I would think that Sirius would have 
steered clear of Severus after he tried to kill him).

Because of that scene, I feel fairly confident now (and certain this 
has been discused to death elsewhere) that The Prank happened in 
sixth year.  I don't think it would have happened before the Pensieve 
Scene, and therefore could not have happened before the boys mastered 
the Animagi spell.  I don't think it could have happened in 7th year, 
because as prefect, Remus was on the fast track to becoming Head 
Boy.  There had to be a reason for James to get Head Boy and not 
Remus.

I think Peter's role in The Prank was exactly the same as James' role 
at the beginning - that is, he knew zilch.  He was not a conspirator 
with Sirius, and he wasn't in the shack with Remus.  He was probably 
with James and Sirius when Snape's location was announced, and while 
James went to get Snape, and Peter stayed with Sirius, either waiting 
for the other two boys to emerge, or going with him to Dumbledore - 
and making sure Sirius told the story correctly.


Kneasy:
> I  admit that [Peter paying] penance was a stab in the dark - I 
> have this thing about motivations and Peter as presented does not seem the  > type to volunteer for hazardous duty. He'd need a strong reason, one were 
> the alternative was worse. It's possible that what  we'll get is not what we > see now, but for the moment I prefer to think  that he was shoved rather 
> than he jumped. More BANG. And it would need one hell  of a motivation for 
> him to keep on going now that  things are getting really nasty.
 

There are as many motivations as there are stars in the sky.  
Blackmail, torture, ransom, cash reward, fear, love, resentment, 
reason (I mean, maybe Peter really did think Voldy was right), or 
even the idea that Peter has been working for DD since the first day 
at school.

I've seen some very interesting arguments that say Peter's been 
working undercover basically since he was eleven - that he'd always 
planned to get in as James & Sirius' friend, only to stab them in the 
back later.  Personally, I don't really buy it.  I don't think an 11 
year old kid has it in him to lie like that.


 Kneasy:
> Yes, loyalty is a supposed attribute of Huffs; but loyalty to whom? 
> Would Peter focus on loyalty to James, to the Marauders as a group, 
> to DD, to the 'good' side, or what? It'd help if we had some Pettigrew 
> background - pureblood? family victims of Voldy? It's that lack of 
> credible motivation again.


If you're asking me where I think Peter's loyalties lie...honestly, I 
have to say with himself.  He's the only person who he hasn't turned 
his back on at any point in the books.  Peter's number one goal these 
days, it seems, is simply to make it out alive.


 Juli:
>  > > Then WHY would DD want LV to return?
 
 Azriona:
> >Because if DD waits for Harry to grow up and become a man, the 
series  will be longer than 7 books and JKR will go the way of Robert 
Jordan's Wheel of Time series, and no one really wants that.

 
 Kneasy:
> The Prophecy - or more likely Prophecies, I'd think.
> They may  be self-fulfilling but DD needs some sort of guide to 
> help him through the maze of possible actions and outcomes. If Seers 
> turn up and offer a possible route map he'd jump at it.
> I know I would.

Yeah, and those Seers are just *so* reliable as road maps, too.  
</sarcasm>  

Personally, I disagree with DD's interpretation of the Prophecies.  
My co-writer for the PeterPaper, Amy, has an amazing theory about how 
the Lost Prophecy is actually about three people, not two.  And 
personally, I'm still not convinced that the Second Prophecy isn't 
about Neville!

*

>charme:
> There is a quote from Petunia which may apply here. In OoP, Petunia 
> refers to that "awful boy" telling Lily about Azkaban and the Dementors. I 
> know a lot of people believe that's referring to Snape, but I believe it's
> referring to Peter.


Absolutely.  I was reading OoP on a plane going cross-country, and 
after the whole Petunia scene I had to stop people in the airport and 
ask if they'd finished with Chapter Two yet, because I was dying for 
a good Petunia-squeal.  I knew the moment I'd read it that she wasn't 
talking about James - and I hope with all my heart that it's Peter.  
(I have a Peter/Petunia theory, though.  Again, random Peter 
Conspiracies rearing their ugly heads again.)

Because, seriously - why would Petunia remember that one scrap of 
information, if it wasn't important to her?  And where the murderer 
of her long lost true love would be pretty darn important, wouldn't 
it?


charme:
>If that's the case, Peter would have told DD about them becoming 
> animagi and he didn't. DD professes not to know about in PoA and seems >rather impressed they *did* keep it from him. And yes, I do believe they did > keep it from him. Peter is weak, and Sirius points out that Peter migrates to whatever wizard is the strongest for protection. Peter himself admits there 
> was nothing to be gained by refusing LV. One week it could be James, 
> another Sirius, another LV. That's not "spy" material, IMO that's weakness.


No, I don't think Peter would have had to tell DD about being 
Animagi, if he was the one to tell DD about the Prank.  Why would he 
have had to do that?  "Dumbledore, sir, we know that Remus is a 
werewolf, and Sirius was stupid and sent Snape in after him."  Now, 
how exactly does being Animagi work into this conversation?  It can 
be very neatly avoided.

I would also argue that Peter is anything but weak.  The man manages 
to fool his best friends into thinking he's not a Death Eater, he 
pulls off a spell that kills 12 Muggles in plain sight *behind his 
back*, he finds Voldy in Albania, overcomes Bertha Jorkins, manages 
some sort of spell that gives Voldy some sort of body, manages to 
brew a (difficult) potion that will bring Voldy back to full power, 
*cuts off his own hand* and still manages not to completely collapse 
after the fact!  Good lord.

As for his words in the Shrieking Shack?  Cover story.  To-tal cover 
story!  And even if it's not - one could argue that it's not 
weakness.  It's a shrewd battle plan.  "Hmm.  DD is old and doesn't 
have a great army.  Voldy is powerful and has a lot of money at his 
disposal.  You know, I think Voldy's the winning side, and here I hop 
over to him."  It's all about self-preservation, baby.

charme:

>I think there's only 2 options here, either Peter
>started out with the idea of spying for the Order and got sucked in 
> or he got recruited by LV and his followers and couldn't resist. I don't 
> think he's DD's eyes and ears any longer, though. He's sealed his fate by 
> the choices he made.

If Peter was a spy at one time - what makes you say he's stopped 
being a spy?  I don't think DD would allow anyone under his 
leadership to slip away quite so easily.  Once you're DD's man, 
you're DD's man until Death.

>charme:
>"Peter" is also JKR's father's name. Interesting, isn't it?

Very.  I didn't know that - does JKR have a good relationship with 
her dad?  *worried now*

--az