[HPforGrownups] Two Wormtails was Re: Plot in OotP (wand confusion)

[charme]

No: HPFGUIDX 118365


>> Pippin:
>>
>> The theory is that Voldemort used the code name Wormtail  for
>> his spy Lupin in Voldemort War One, in order to taunt  James
>> and mislead Dumbledore <snip>

charme:
In my free time this summer reading JKR interviews, she did say that she got 
Peter's "Wormtail" name from her sister: she said her sister hated rats and 
it was their tails which freaked her out - I'll see if I can't hunt that 
article down for you. I also might mention that Sirius refers directly to 
Peter as "Wormtail" in the Pensieve scene of OoP. With those points in mind, 
I don't believe Wormtail stands for anything other than Peter.


>>Pettigrew appears unmasked before the assembled Death
>>Eaters -- why, if not to convince everyone beyond a shadow of
>>doubt that Wormtail the spy, the person Sirius overheard the
>>DE's in Azkaban denounce as their betrayer, was indeed
>>Pettigrew? <snip>

charme:
As far as Pettigrew appearing unmasked, the guy has just given his hand to 
bring LV back. I think that at this point, Peter has redeemed what other 
DE's could perceive as "betrayal" when LV was otherwise relieved of his body 
when attacking Harry and his parents at GH. Sirius does say in PoA that DE's 
there whispered that Peter had betrayed LV, and they might have wanted to 
provide some revenge to Peter on that front.  Therefore, Peter'd need to be 
seen by the other DE's so they'd know he's LV's right hand man and 
responsible for LV's rise (sorry about the pun.) He is rewarded in front of 
other DE's, so his place in the LV regime is rather solidified now, isn't 
it?


> Everything we see of Pettigrew puts him in the first category, but
> everything that we're told about the spy puts him in the second
> (or the third).  The spy was supposedly Voldemort's second in
> command and  he was active for an entire year.  Yet Peter's
> health collapsed  before Sirius or Crookshanks ever got near
> him.  How could he possibly have served two masters, one of
> them in  a position of great authority,  for such a long time,
> without ever showing the strain? His animagus form would be a
> chameleon!

charme:
I re-read the first couple of chapters of PoA as a result of your post 
because I was curious if I missed something. about Scabber's health and 
Egypt timeline. Siruis' escape is reported, I think, before Ron returned 
from Egypt with Scabbers. Ron specifically says in PoA at the shop where 
they take Scabbers to be examined that he hasn't been right since they 
*returned* from Egypt. Scabbers started showing wear and tear when he 
returned to find out Sirius had escaped, probably paranoid Sirius would hunt 
him down.


>>Moreover, if what Fudge tells us is true, and Black's exposure as
>>a double agent seemed to have been timed for the moment of
>>the Potters' deaths, then the frame was planned in advance.  The
>>purpose of that would be so that the real spy could continue
>>spying. The war would not have come to an end with Harry's
>>death. There was still another prophecy child and Albus
>>Dumbledore to deal with. It makes sense that Voldemort would
>>try to preserve his spy by framing someone else.


>> But Voldemort could hardly be sure that Sirius would not
>>maintain his innocence and denounce Pettigrew as the secret
>>keeper.  That would make Pettigrew's position impossible,
>>especially if his success depended on his being completely
>>unsuspected.  And if Pettigrew was supposed to fake his death
>>to avoid this, he still  wouldn't have been able to continue spying,
>>so what was the point of framing Sirius? None -- unless
>>Pettigrew was not the spy!

charme:
I think you give LV too much credit for preplanning;  I think as we've seen 
in some of Kneasy's posts, LV isn't exactly as on top of things as we would 
assume a villian to be. As far as Lupin being the "spy", I don't believe he 
is.  Since the Secret Keeper's identity was a "switch" and a secret, it was 
Sirius' word against Peter's after GH. DD makes a statement in in OoP about 
LV expecting how "fools who love" act, and I don't think this is any 
different with Sirius and his love for James and Lily.  He *thought* he'd 
killed them (PoA) by convincing them to change Secret Keepers at the last 
minute. Guilt can do funky things to people, and he's just thought he's 
caused the deaths of 2 of the people in the world he cared most about.  More 
people knew Sirius was most likely their SK; there's no one after James & 
Lily died to corroborate Sirius' story that it was switched to Peter. When 
Sirius went after Peter, Peter who is not known for his dueling, could only 
do one thing: "hide"  It's not like he had anyone to protect him (LV) 
anymore.  And I disagree that Peter couldn't still yet "spy", he could. 
He's a rat in his animagus form - as long as Lupin didn't see him (the only 
one free or alive at this point,) he was ok.