bullies? twins, padfoot and prongs

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 118557


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" 
<justcarol67 at y...> wrote:
> It's not clear from the description of the scene whether
> James has his wand out already, but since Sirius has pointed 
Severus out to him and James is the one who "greets" (insults) 
Severus, I'm pretty sure that he does. Note the narrator's 
description of Severus's reaction:
> 
> "Snape reacted *so fast* that it was as though he had been 
expecting *an attack*; dropping his bag, he plunged his hand inside 
his robes, and his hand was halfway into the air when James shouted,
> "Expelliarmus!" (646). So even taken off guard and unarmed, 
Severus is quick, but James is prepared for the *attack* and is 
almost certainly already armed. So we can't judge their relative 
speed in a fair fight from this scene, 

Valky:
The phrase "as though he had been expecting an attack" in no way 
leads to an assumption that james was still armed. 
Snape was 'expecting" an attack, from Harry's POV. This information 
is gleaned by Harry, *strictly*, from Snapes reaction. If James' 
wand was out before Snape moved then the POV of Harry would not be 
that Snapes reaction was *as though* he had been < note the 
curiosity of the narration > *expecting an attack*, surely. 
The appropriate wording in the case of James' wand already being out 
and aimed at Snape would be: Snape reacted quickly to the impending 
attack. The attack was not obvious, James wand was not drawn or 
aimed. Of that I am entirely certain. 


Justcarol:
> It does not help, of course, that
> Sirius immediately jumps in and shouts "Impedimenta!" preventing
> Severus from getting to the wand James has expelled from Severus's
> hand. That, of course, makes the bullying still worse. Not only has
> James attacked an unarmed opponent with inadequate warning, it's 
now two against one. 
> 
> I don't think that Severus was normally weaker than James alone,
> especially given his knowledge of hexes and his willingness to use
> them. It's the circumstances and the behavior of the two 
Gryffindors that make Severus a victim, and James and Sirius 
Bullies, in this particular instance.
> 

Valky:
With this I agree. Sirius' actions and the duo's behaviour are 
exactly why this is bullying, once James gets the better of Snape he 
is free title to them. 
No personal intent Carol but I just don't understand why others feel 
the necessity to construe the story to say that James attacked an 
unarmed opponent without warning, it's overkill. The words simply 
don't support it, and it doesn't change the fact that he behaved 
like an Ar*e following it. 

> catkind wrote:
> > I have the feeling both parties in this conflict think the other
> > doesn't play fair - James detests Snape for his use of dark arts
> hexes and so on, and sees that Snape is really aiming to injure. 
> > Snape, on the other hand, probably thinks James is being unfair 
in using such humiliation tactics, and not letting it be a "fair 
fight". I bet he'd prefer to be hexed than have his underwear shown 
off.  
>

Valky:
Gosh, catkind I think you are sooo right about this.
 
> Carol responds:
> We really don't have James's view on this subject. He says that he
> hexes Severus "because he exists." It's the adult Sirius who 
credits James with a hatred of the Dark Arts. (I wonder if he's 
projecting his own hatred of his Dark Wizard parents onto Snape and 
assuming that James shares his hatred. As I've noted elsewhere, 
James is quite casual, and even seems surprised that Lily would 
criticize him for harmlessly amusing the onlookers--his apparent 
attitude, not mine!)
>

Valky:
Overkill! Carol. James just simply isn't this bad, you just want him 
to be, right?
Sirius statement about James *Hating* the Dark Arts is adamant and 
sincere, How can you doubt that? Of all the things that Sirius has 
said?