bullies? twins, padfoot and prongs

[ginnysthe1]

No: HPFGUIDX 118637


Ces attributed the following quote to Carol (justcarol):

"This part I agree with completely."

Carol noted:
I did write this sentence.

Then the quote continued:
"On the other hand, Snape's bullying behavior may have begun at first 
as retaliation for the nasty way Sirius and James had treated him for 
being ugly, odd, greasy, etc."

Carol responded:
The bracketed [Kim above now uses quotation marks instead of 
brackets] words, snipped by Ces, are Kim's. (I would never call Snape 
ugly. Granted, he should wash his hair and bleach his teeth, but an 
aquiline nose could be considered aristocratic, and the adult Snape 
is no longer skinny and round-shouldered. . . . I digress.)

Kim now:
Yes, that quote was mine.  But I didn't really mean to call Snape 
ugly, and definitely not on account of his large nose (of course, 
maybe I was thinking of A. Rickman's large nose, which I adore...) 
which could be aristocratic, though that would be a matter of 
complete indifference to me.  In my quote above I was trying to use 
adjectives that Sirius or James might have used to describe the 
greasy-haired, skinny, round-shouldered oddball Severus that they 
knew at the time I was referring to.  I could imagine Sirius and 
James thinking Severus ugly, no matter what my opinion is of his 
appearance.  But I agree with Carol that Severus/Snape ought to wash 
his hair, though not bleach his teeth.  Just brushing them would do 
(that is, if lack of brushing is the reason they look the way they 
do -- I can't recall right now what canon said about Severus/Snape's 
teeth).  Anyway I'm not sure the WW would have tooth bleach and IMO 
it tends to make people's teeth look unnaturally white.  I've told my 
own dentist as much, without voicing my suspicion that he's really 
just out to make a buck.  In any case, to each his or her own.  Talk 
about digressing.

Quote resumed:
"...all speculating at this point. I think that Sirius, for example, 
associated Severus with what he hated about his own home and family,
which (for me) explains his vindictiveness. He may even have rejected 
that hatred of the Dark Arts onto James as an explanation of why he 
disliked Severus. But James seems to be entertaining himself (and
Sirius) by bullying Severus in the Pensieve scene. He dislikes him,
certainly, but he doesn't seem to share Sirius's virulent hatred."> 

Carol responded:
Okay, these are my words (snipped by Ces).

Ces wrote (in response to the above quote from Carol):
But what about the remark that James made to Lily about Severus just 
existing?  That would seem to be a remark to come more from Sirius 
than James, if Black does hate Severus more than James did. Whatever 
did Severus do to James to make a remark like that?

Carol responded:
I don't think we can assume from James's words that Severus did
anything. It seems like a feeble excuse to me--and to Lily as well,
apparently. Even if Severus deserved James's dislike, and I see no
indication *in this scene* that he did, he certainly didn't deserve an
unprovoked attack by two opponents who caught him off guard. And no 
one deserves to be attacked "because they exist."

Kim now:
This I agree with completely.  I might add, in response to Ces, that 
bullying behavior is often "provoked" by what seems to be the mere 
existence of a particular person.  What the bully doesn't say outloud 
(usually) is what about that person's "existence" makes the bully 
want to attack him (or her).  I think it's often as Carol 
conjectured, that the "victim" reminds the bully of something he (the 
bully) is ashamed of or hates about himself.

Then Carol signed off:
Carol, requesting that posters be a bit more careful in their 
snipping and attributions

Kim now:
I agree with Carol's sign-off completely too.  :-)

Kim