What has Snape seen (Was Re: bullies? twins, padfoot and prongs)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 118716


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Hannah" <hannahmarder at y...> wrote:
> 
> > Magda:
> > > Interesting that she says "he will have SEEN things that..."
> > > not "he will have DONE things that..."
> > > Assistant-to-Voldemort's-Potion-Master!Snape sounds quite likely.
> > 
> > Kathy Wrote:
> > I would assume that it would be unlikely for students to be 
> > marked as full DE's due to the lack of privacy.  I would also tend 
> to 
> > assume, considering the general dumbness of most of the other 
> > deatheaters that Snape was a relatively good score for Voldemort 
> and he 
> > would have treated Snape decently at first.  It would not be out 
> of the 
> > question for V to possibly  arrange an aprrenticeship for Snape to 
> > become a  Master of Potions in order to provide whatever 
> substances V. 
> > required for his imortality, and whatever research might be 
> required.  In this scenario, Snape might have  joined the DE's 
> shortly after 
> > graduation, and served his apprenticeship requirements.  Once this 
> had  been completed, he would then have been expected to take his 
> place among  the DE's, which would be just about the time he went to 
> Dumbledore.  It  could be that the first few requirements of V's was 
> more than he could 
> > stomach.  As a spy, at that time, as Dumbledore stated, he would 
> have  been expected to participate or perhaps produce potion 
> requirements and 
> > still maintain his cover.  It certainly takes up the 5-6 year time 
> span  between graduation and  V's fall.
>                                                                      
> Hannah: In some interpretations of the timeline, that gap is as 
> short as 4 years.  That's not that long for Snape to join the DE's, 
> be one for a while, change his mind, switch sides, and spy of a 
> bit.  I also agree that Snape would have been quite a good catch for 
> LV.  So I think he joined up shortly after graduation, maybe late 
> that summer or the following autumn.  Also, his friends (Lucius, 
> Bella, Rodolphus) that were in his 'gang' would probably already 
> have been in by then, and keen for little Sevvie to join them.
> 
> Snape must have had some sort of 'respectable' job as well as being 
> a DE.  He hadn't been accused of being a DE before LV fell (or 
> Sirius would have known), so presumably he had some sort of cover.  
> Maybe he worked for a potions making company, or at St. Mungo's 
> (they must have in house potions makers). 
> 
> As to what he's seen or done, in some ways I hope he's not done 
> anything too awful, but OTOH I think it would be a bit lame if it 
> turns out he just hid away at HQ with his nose in a cauldron the 
> whole time.  I reckon he'll have seen a lot of nasty things, and 
> done at least a few himself.  For instance, I can see him managing 
> the Cruiciatius curse without too much difficulty, if it was on 
> the 'right' person.
> 
> Not sending Snape out to fight would be wasting a valuable resource 
> for LV, IMO.  All the signs point to him being pretty handy in a 
> duel, especially where he'd have the upper hand to start with.  
> There's the quick reactions, the ability to keep his cool (at least 
> in certain situations), his mastery of plenty of hexes... No, he'd 
> have been there at various muggle killings and Order fights, maybe 
> as Lucius' right hand man.  Even once he'd turned spy he'd still 
> have had to participate when required in order to maintain his cover.

Carol responds:
The only problem I have with Hannah's interpretation is that if young
Snape had actually performed a Cruciatus or other illegal curse, it
would have showed up in a Priori Incantatem on his wand (if one was
done, and I don't see why it wouldn't) and Crouch Sr. would have sent
him to Azkaban rather than believing Dumbledore that Snape had
reformed and was now a spy. He could easily have used that slew of
hexes and curses in any duels or fights without "dirtying" his wand by
using an Unforgiveable. As cunning as Snape is, I think he could have
managed to please, and fool, Voldemort without actually performing any
Unforgiveables himself. But he may well have concocted undetectable
poisons (bottled Death?) as well as immortality potions. He might even
have learned to concot Veritaserum and the Wolfbane Potion in LV's
service, the latter as part of LV's attempt to recruit werewolves to
his side. I don't think Snape is sinless, by any means, but I do think
he would have kept the record of his spells as clean as possible out
of self-preservation, if for no other motive. If he could use a legal
spell rather than an illegal one, I think he would have done so. And
note that he can sometimes cast spells without saying them aloud, so
the other DEs, unless they were watching the color of the light that
came out of his wand instead of doing their own job, would not have
known the difference.

Also, as I've said before, Voldemort generally placed his DEs where
they were most useful. He had an Imperius expert, named in Karkaroff's
testimony, Cruciatus experts like Bellatrix and probably Barty Jr. (an
eager little fanatic who would not have hesitated to use any
Unforgiveable in the service of his "master"), and designated
murderers (Dolohov and Rosier, IIRC). Macnair is evidently his
creature killer (oddly preferring an axe to a wand). Regulus, not
particularly talented or brave as far as we can tell, would have been
low in the ranks and would have had to do what he was told or die.
Snape, IMO, would have insinuated his way to the top, making sure that
LV knew his talents and put them to their best use. And the best use
for him would have been what only he could do, not what many other
supporters could do equally well.

Above all, good as Dumbledore is at forgiving, would he have hired
Snape if he had actually Crucio'd or AK'd innocent people? Snape's
fascination with the Dark Arts does not necessarily translate into a
fascination with illegal and Unforgiveable Curses.

Carol, noting that JKR was very careful in her response about
Thestrals to avoid suggesting that the deaths Snape had witnessed were
his own doing