What has Snape seen (Was Re: bullies? twins, padfoot and prongs)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 118725


Hannah wrote:
> > As to what he's seen or done, in some ways I hope he's not done
anything too awful, but OTOH I think it would be a bit lame if it
turns out he just hid away at HQ with his nose in a cauldron the whole
time.  I reckon he'll have seen a lot of nasty things, and
> > done at least a few himself.  For instance, I can see him managing
> > the Cruiciatius curse without too much difficulty, if it was on
> > the 'right' person.
> >
> > Not sending Snape out to fight would be wasting a valuable
resource for LV, IMO.  All the signs point to him being pretty handy
in a duel, especially where he'd have the upper hand to start with. 
> > There's the quick reactions, the ability to keep his cool (at
least in certain situations), his mastery of plenty of hexes... No,
he'd have been there at various muggle killings and Order fights,
maybe as Lucius' right hand man.  Even once he'd turned spy he'd still
> > have had to participate when required in order to maintain his cover.
> 
> 
> Kathy responded:
>     I think you have a lot of good points.  I do wonder about his
value to V as a fighter, however.  This is not expressed very well in
the books.  He knows a lot of spells and hexes, he has several
important skills, Legilimency and occlumency, he is capable with
defense, using expelliarmus on Lockhart, and using a spell that cut
James face in the pensieve scene.  For the most part though, and this
has been brought up by other posters, Snape,warns, threatens, tries to
intimidate, but almost never takes direct action. In the stand-off
with Sirius, he was waiting for Sirius to make the first move.  The
only indication of his power level is in SS when he attempts to
control the broom wandless.  He is fighting against both Quirrel and
V. and holding his own.  He was not the smartest student at Hogwarts,
much as it pains me to say this, James and Sirius were considered to
be the brightest.  He is not described as tall in the books, (Sirius
is taller) and he is thin.   He has  only two real claims to fame. 1)
he is a Potion's Master  and 2)  he is a logical thinker.
> 
>  He appears to have some very strong inhibitions against actual
physical or magical violence rather than the enjoyment needed to be a
truly 
> successful DE. He threatened Harry in the Shrieking shack several
times, 
> threatened Sirius at least once.  This did have some effect, so Sirius 
> obviously believes him to be capable.  He got chewed on by Fluffy, and 
> knocked out by Harry.  The most he has done in the books as an adult
was give Harry a good shove and perhaps, deliberately or accidentally 
> explode a jar of cockroaches.  I am not convinced that he is still
spying.
> 
>  I suspect he would have chosen to remain in a position making use
of his specialty and enjoying the status that he would have gained
from that rather than risking himself  on murdering muggles and
fighting aurors.  It doesn't even tell us in the books that he was
killing flies, or stunning flies, or if it was even him in his
memories.  If he was a smart man, and Slytherin, don't forget, he'd
have stuck his nose well into a cauldron and tried very hard to leave
it there while eavesdropping diligently.


Carol responds to both posts:
We do know that Snape is highly intelligent, as even the narrator,
expressing Harry's POV concedes: "Putting two and two together as only
Snape could. It was Snape who suspected Quirrell in SS/PS and his
suspicions of Lupin in PoA were not wholly unfounded. He can perform
some powerful spells (e.g., Legilimency), he's a superb Occlumens and
potion maker, he can do silent magic (waving his wand without speaking
the spell to put potions ingredients on the board or clean up a
spill), he conjured up four stretchers in PoA and floated the
stretchers back to Hogwarts. The detailed answers on his DADA exam are
strong evidence that he was well-versed in that subject at fifteen or
sixteen (end of fifth year).

It's true that we haven't yet seen what he's capable of doing, but
I'll be surprised if he isn't a very powerful wizard in his own right.
I think he *could* cast a Cruciatus Curse or an Imperio or an AK but
has chosen not to do so. As you say, he threatens but doesn't follow
through with his threats, mostly because he doesn't have to but also
because he seems to prefer psychological punishment to physical
punishment. The fact that he doesn't kill Sirius is no indication that
he could not have done so, just as he refuses to use magic to punish
students, unlike Crouch!Moody and Umbridge. This preference may well
be a matter of principle or self-control. I don't think it's an
indication of his inability to use such magic. And again, I think he
could hold his own in a duel or a battle using a great variety of
hexes and curses without resorting to illegal curses.

BTW, we do know that the teenage boy stunning flies is Snape. Harry
recognizes him, as he does not recognize the hook-nosed man in the
scene with the angry father.

I've already stated that I think LV would have recognized Snape's
value as a potion maker and capitalized on that, but I doubt very much
that he knew about Snape's talents as an Occlumens. The whole point of
having that talent or skill is to conceal it. So I agree that LV would
have put him to what he considered to be the best use, primarily
making potions that none of the other DEs could concoct.

We haven't really seen what Snape can do because, on principle or for
self-preservation, he holds back from using magical punishments on
children or adults.

Carol, wishing she knew the answers to all the Snape questions