Trio Rising (was Re: McGonagall in OOTP )

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 118808


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lupinlore" <bob.oliver at c...> 
wrote:
Oh, I certainly agree that McGonagall does what she can within the 
 bounds of her character.  But that is precisely my point.
Look, let's go at this another way.  One problem any author faces who 
wants to write an adventure story featuring kids is what to do with 
 the adults.  To put it simply, if the adults in the story act the 
way they should, then the adventure can't happen since the kids can't 
get into the kind of dangerous situations the adventure requires.  
Now, there are a couple of ways to deal with this.  The first, and 
most common I suppose, is to send the kids somewhere where there ARE 
no adults.  This is the tack Madeleine L'Engle takes in "A Wrinkle in 
Time" and C.S. Lewis employs in "The Lion, The Witch, and the 
Wardrobe."  The other option is to make the adults fundamentally 
incompetent, if not downright malicious.  This is the tack JKR takes.
The adults, by and large, aren't evil -- but they are flawed in ways 
that cripple them at key points in the plot.  Thus Snape is too 
bitter, McGonagall too stern and unbending, Dumbledore too detached, 
Sirius too erratic, and Remus too passive to really step in and do 
their "job" as adults at crucial moments in the HP saga, particularly 
in OOTP.
And therein, I think, lies the interest in the trio.  The adults are 
all, in some sense, "finished products."  Although one cannot 
preclude growth and change, still there is a sense in which the 
adults have already realized what potential they might have had.  
They can't really aspire to be that much better than they already 
are.  If they could, the story would be about them, which it ain't.
The trio, on the other hand, is in a sense potential incarnate.  Sure 
they aren't perfect and will never be perfect, but they have every 
possibility of rising above the adults and surpassing them.  Thus Ron 
is interesting because he can surpass Remus and avoid the trap of 
passivity, self-doubt, and "second-fiddleness" that is such a problem 
for the adult.  Hermione has the chance to grow beyond the flaws that 
so incapacitated McGonagall at key moments in OOTP.  And Harry is 
much more interesting than Snape because he has the potential to be 
so much greater than Severus, and yes, to move beyond the flaws that 
Dumbledore has evinced.
Any coming of age story is about the changing of eras.  As the trio 
comes of age, they will almost certainly surpass the adults in key 
ways (although not, obviously, in all ways as of yet).  I would not 
be surprised to see examples of this in the upcoming books.  There is 
a somewhat sad counter-trend, however.  The era of the trio is 
dawning, but that means the time of the adults is passing.  The 
adults, simply because they ARE adults in a series where the heroes 
are the kids, are doomed to be falling stars.  Merlin must vanish so 
that Arthur can take ascendancy, Gandalf and Bilbo fade away to leave 
 center stage to Frodo and Sam, and Obi-Wan falls so that Luke can 
rise to his destiny.  In a similar way Dumbledore, Remus, McGonagall, 
and Snape, although they certainly have important roles yet to play,  
must inevitably decline so that Harry, Ron, and Hermione can come 
into their own.



Alla: 
You are quickly becoming one of my most favourite debaters on list, 
Lupinlore. :)

You make great points and I think that most likely you are going to 
be right in you assessment, but I suppose I am still too optimistic 
at this point in series.

Now, I happily concede that in general you are right even as of 
today. In order for kids to play first parts in the story, adults 
should be either idiots or not to exist at all.
They ARE majorly flawed, they ARE just supporting elements in Harry's 
story, which I am VERY interested in, BUT my optimism, maybe naive 
optimism is based on the fact that I consider Rowling to be very GOOD 
writer ( no not the GREATEST, but very GOOD, STRONG writer). 
Accordingly, I hope that her "coming out of age" series will manage 
to become not TYPICAL out of age series, in a sense that some adults 
characters will be able to progress at least marginally.

Like for example, my long advocated change in Snape's character at 
the end ( NO, not the excuse for what he does , but change). He is a 
very smart man, he should  be able to figure out one day that Harry 
is NOT his father. I don't think that such change will compromise 
kids playing the major parts in the story, but it will also give me 
my long desired closure for Snape character.

Let's take Remus, for example. As someone who does not believe in ESE!
Remus, I believe that there is still time for Remus to step up to the 
plate and be less passive character, even if it will reflect only in 
him being more involved with Harry's training and with Harry's well-
being in general.


Yes, indeed Trio has the chance to become much better people than 
previous generation was and most likely they will be, but for now - 
they are just that - children.

One of the reasons I love Harry's character so much because he had 
been through enormous amount of pain, so on emotional level I just 
want everything to be better for him, but if his pain was not so 
real, but more "cartoonish"(for example if his main worries were his 
grades at school), I don't know, I am not sure if I would liked his 
character so much.

I also think that Ron is well developed character, but even Hermione 
is still lacking in characterisation, IMO.

I think another child character, who I could have love as much as I 
love Harry's could have been Neville, if only Rowling would have 
developed him more.