James and Snape. Was. Re: Snape and Harry again.

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 114311

Potioncat wrote:
> <snip> Here is where you and I may have been confused about each
other's viewpoint. For an adult or older teen to act this way is a
character flaw. For a little child, or possibly an older child to act
this way is an annoying behavior that should be corrected.
<snip>
> So, perhaps the Marauders call Severus that because he snivels for 
help(?) when they are fighting, or because he tattles...is that your 
point?  I'm talking about 11 -15 year old Severus here. Or even 15 
year old Severus stuck with a nickname he was given several years 
> prior.
<snip>
> Maybe how you and I see this differently is that you think the 
Marauders are justified and he deserved the nickname. I think they 
are being mean. I don't know which it is, but I really like how 
clearly this scene changes based on preconceptions!
> 
<snip>

<partially snipped quotes>
>OoP chapter 28
>"How'd the exam go, Snivelly?" said James.
>"I was watching him, his nose was touching the parchment," said 
> Sirius viciously. "There'll be great grease marks all over it, 
> they won't be able to read a word."

> Do you see any snivelling behavior in the Pensieve scene? Or have
you seen adult Snape behave in a snivelling manner?


Carol adds:
I think you're on the right track, Potioncat. The question here, IMO,
is not so much how we interpret "snivelling" as how we interpret
Sirius's (and James's) intention in using the term. It seems to be a
habitual insult, suggesting that it dates from an early point in their
acquaintance with Severus, a time when all of them were children
rather than teenagers. And as you say, what Severus did at eleven is
no indication of his character at fifteen, much less as a man in his
thirties.

Note JKR's use of "viciously" to describe Sirius's attitude in this
scene--not to my mind an indication that we should accept his judgment
of Severus's character or view the nickname as appropriate and
deserved. And we certainly can't assume that the word relates to
tattling (as Valky suggests in a snipped part of the post) when the
evidence *seems* to indicate that it relates to his appearance (not
even a runny nose but a greasy one, a common affliction among teenagers).

At any rate, I think Potioncat's questions are important. If Severus
is acting in a "snivelling" manner in the Pensieve scene, then perhaps
the nickname is justified. But both James and Sirius use it before
Severus has done anything other than take his exam and study the
questions afterwards. *They* are setting him up, and he reacts with
understandable anger to their bullying. I don't see any sign of
cowardice or any indication that he intends to report them to a
teacher. Two prefects are present, but he says nothing to Remus for
neglecting his prefect duties and not stepping in, and he resents
Lily's interference. Contrast this behavior with the groveling
cowardice of Peter Pettigrew in the Shrieking Shack. *That*, I think
we all agree, qualifies as snivelling by any definition.

Does the adult Snape "snivel"? Certainly he has his faults, from
sarcasm to (occasional) uncontrolled anger, but he also shows
remarkable courage on a number of occasions, remaining at Hogwarts
when Karkaroff "flees," showing his Dark Mark to Fudge, and going into
danger at the end of GoF being the ones that come immediately to my
mind. He holds weakness in contempt, and we never hear him whimper.
Note that when the Dark Mark burns him, he grabs his arm convulsively
but makes no noise and then drops his arm when he realizes what he's
doing.

Carol, who doesn't think we can judge Snape by an insulting nickname
given to him by his schoolboy enemies regardless of its meaning, any
more than we can judge Harry and Ron by Draco's use of "Potty and the
Weasel"