NSP!Lucius and Who can fathom the mind of a house elf?

[samnanya]

No: HPFGUIDX 114366

What a great thread! Solid canon, not some half-baked opinions,
and moreover, a thread that leads to more insight rather than
to opinion mongering................  

Most interesting that kmc provides the canon and also an
interesting argument for NSP!Malfoy  (NotSoPureblooded)
When I read the paragraphs that follow, I finally had a
decent explanation for one of the biggest puzzles in COS
- why did Dobby betray his master's trust to warn Harry
Potter? That never made sense to me given the strict house
elf code of obedience to one's master.   
However, if Lucius was a Half-Blood, the argument that
Dobby, like Kreacher, could "betray" his master makes a 
lot more sense. 
Dumbledore did defend Kreacher in OOP and talked about the 
"trust" that Kreacher had for Narcissa Black, which allowed
him to betray Sirius. 
Also interesting is exactly where Kreacher ends up at the
start of Book 6, and exactly what secrets he will divulge to
Narcissa. I doubt that he will remain at HQ to have his
head lopped off by Harry or some other order member.
Once again, form your own opinion, but don't be suprised
if Lucius comes from an "old family" not necessarily a 
wizarding one. THanks kmc!

kmc wrote:
One of the girls in my youth group and I were discussing the Draco as 
half-blood prince on a recent car ride.  I was arguing for him being 
the HBP and she was able to counter everyone of my "dreams" with 
cannon. We discussed affairs, a hidden Mugggle in ancestory.  She 
used the arguments I posted here for the hidden Muggle. 
I argued that maybe Narcissa had a Muggle in her background that was 
hidden from the Black family but ---> she pointed out that Kreacher 
did not take orders from half-blood Tonks. He would not run to 
Narcissa if she was Half-blood.  <-----

============================================================
original slightly snipped thread
samnanya
> I wonder if JKR will suprise us all and have Draco Malfoy
> turn out to be the Half-Blood Prince.  We know that his
> mother's line is pure because of the Blacks, but precious
> little is said about Lucius' ancestry......
> JKR has already said that pureblood is not necessary to
> be a Death Eater.
> At the end of GOF (706)  Fudge responds to Harry's
> allegation that Lucius Malfoy was a Death Eater by saying
> "Malfoy was cleared! ... A very old family -"
> Hmmm I ownder why the word "wizard" or "wizarding" was
> not added as it was in so many other places.
> Not much yet to go on, but isn't that what suprises are all 
> about? If you don't think so, please provide CANON evidence 
> that Lucius is indeed pureblooded........
>   
> kmc provides the cannon:
> Page 113, OotP, Hardback, American version Chapter Six
(emphasis mine)
> "He pointed to another samll round burn mark between two 
names,  Bellatrix and Narcissa."'Andromeda's sisters are 
still her because they made lovely, respectable PURE-BLOOD
marriages,' 
<snip>
Cannon - Lucius is full-blood as is Draco.
BTW - When I first heard the title of book six, I was pulling for 
Draco to be half-blood.  But, alas, this is not support by cannon.

Dharma replies:
I personally do not believe that it is impossible for Witches and 
> Wizards who believe they are purebloods to find out that such is 
> not the case.  There are characters who hold some pretty important 
> facts to be true, only to find out that they are just plain wrong.  
> Canon often reflects what the characters know, until it is the right 
> time in the plot to reveal the truth, or another character has a 
> reason to present to appropriate information.
>  
> -Sirius believes that Peter could not be a spy for 2 or so years, 
> only to discover the truth at the cost the Potters' lives.  
>  
> -Remus and Dumbledore believe Sirius to be a spy and murderer for 
> more than a decade, until they are witness the impossible.  
>  
> -Most of Hogwarts seems to be under the impression that Trelawney 
> has no Sight, but that is not the case.  She makes very accurate 
> predictions regularly.  She only has two known prophesies under 
> belt, but her predictions work out.
>    
> -Bellatrix is unable to accept that Voldemort is not a pureblood 
> wizard even though she is given information to the contrary.   
> Barty Jr. knows so why doesn't she?
>  
> -Harry believes that Mrs. Figg is just an older Muggle woman in his 
> neighborhood.  
>  
> -Almost every member of the Wizarding community, including Sirius 
> who was imprisoned with him, believed that Barty Crouch Jr. was 
dead.
>  
> Canon suggests to us that "pureblood" families would start 
> disowning members if they stepped out of line.  This to me sets up 
> the perfect scenario for some family mythology.  Hiding facts, 
> telling lies and ignoring evidence have been done commonly in 
history 
> to maintain "noble" family reputations.  We do have canon to suggest 
> that there are Wizards who would willingly lie and scheme to 
> protect their children (see Mr. and Mrs. Crouch). If there is one 
> illegitimate child somewhere in a family history, or a not so 
> publicized marriage, it's not too difficult for a pureblood Wizard 
> to be come a half blood Wizard.  
>  
> Narcissa's phenotype comes to mind on this one.  She might have 
> gotten all of those recessive features from the Black line.  But 
> then again, we only know what Sirius knows about that part of the 
> family, and for me the information is not very complete.  Her 
> mother's family is never discussed.  If it only takes one Muggle or 
> Muggleborn Wizard in an individuals lineage to alter one's pureblood 
> status and canon only reflects what the characters believe to be 
> factual, then we could be in for some surprises.
> 
> With that said
I'm not sure who the HBP is, but it could be 
> interesting if it did turn out to be a character who is under an 
> erroneous/incomplete impression about his family history.  That 
> could lead to some very interesting developments in books 6 and 7.
>  
> kmc again:
>  
> The challenge was to provide cannon that Malfoy was pure-blood.  
> Consider that Mrs. Black blasted off every member of the family who 
> did not conform to the her ideals of pure-blood.  I see the marriage 
> between Lucius and Narcissa more as the proper thing to do - maybe 
> even an arranged marriage.  As has been stated, there aren't a lot 
of 
> choices if you are only going to let your sons and daughters marry 
> pure blood wizards.  It may be why Narcissa looks like there is "a 
> nasty smell under her nose."  She had to go to the Quidditch Cup 
with 
> Lucius.
> 
> Dharma replies:
> 
> Narcissa might just not like Quidditch.  She may have and issue with 
> sitting in a crowded stand.  The look on her face tells us nothing 
> about any moment other than what we see.  She might find community 
> functions annoying.  There is just as much likelihood that she loves 
> Lucius as there is that she tolerates Lucius.
>  
> kmc wrote:
> One of the girls in my youth group and I were discussing the Draco 
as 
> half-blood prince on a recent car ride.  I was arguing for him being 
> the HBP and she was able to counter everyone of my "dreams" with 
> cannon. We discussed affairs, a hidden Mugggle in ancestory.  She 
> used the arguments I posted here for the hidden Muggle. 
>  
> I argued that maybe Narcissa had a Muggle in her background that was 
> hidden from the Black family but she pointed out that Kreacher did 
> not take orders from half-blood Tonks.  He would not run to Narcissa 
> if she was Half-blood.
> 
> Dharma replies:
> 
> Kreacher acts on information from Mrs. Black.  If any male Black 
> married a Muggleborn, Muggle or half blood Witch, why would they 
tell 
> the truth and have their bigoted relatives, most certainly Mrs. 
> Black,  potentially attack their mate?  It is common knowledge that 
> Andromeda married a Muggleborn Wizard; therefore Kreacher is able to 
> act on the information (ignoring Tonks).  Andromeda chose to marry a 
> known Muggleborn and was apparently ousted from the family.  Does 
> everyone have that kind of courage?  What do we know about 
Narcissa's 
> mother?  We know what Sirius knows.  There is more than enough canon 
> to suggest that Sirius could have legitimately believed false 
> information.  We've had more than one instance of Wizards lying to 
> protect their skin.  Kreacher's behavior is just not conclusive.
>  
> kmc wrote:
> As to Lucius not being Draco's biological father - Lucius and Draco 
> have the same features and coloring.  That Harry recognizes him as 
> Draco's father in COS.
> 
> Dharma replies:
> Did anyone in this thread suggest that Lucius was not Draco's 
> father?  If so, you did not include that bit in your post.  If you 
> are referring to my comment about illegitimate children, my comment 
> could apply to any "pureblood's" family history at any point.  I 
> certainly never suggested that Lucius was not Draco's father.