Harry learning from Snape (was: stopper death)

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 114598


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dzeytoun" <dzeytoun at c...> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> > Renee:
> > On the one hand, I'd love to see such a Cold War, to see Harry 
> > taunting Snape by being politely snarky. On the other hand, 
there's 
> > a catch to this. In the initial stages of such a conflict, 
Snape's 
> > reaction will probably be to punish Harry and unfortunately one 
of 
> > the punishments he has at his disposal isn't just personal: he 
can 
> > dock house points. And he will. Which means Harry will be 
fighting 
> > Snape at the cost of all the other Gryffindors. 
> > 
> > True, this has hardly stopped him before, but one of the aspects 
of 
> > growing up is getting less self-centered and taking other 
people's 
> > well-being into account. Engaging in a cold war with Snape while 
> > disregarding the consequences to his fellow housemates may run 
> > counter to Harry's maturing process. So I think he can only 
fight 
> > Snape effectively if he manages to convince the other 
Gryffindors 
> > that they, too, will ultimately benefit from it - which will 
only 
> be 
> > the case if Harry can make Snape change his nasty ways.
> > 
> > If he can do this, he'll also show his capacity for leadership. 
If 
> > he doesn't dwell on how his behaviour will affect his 
housemates, 
> > this strategy may only lead to the next spectacular failure. As 
> > other people have pointed out, there's more at stake than just a 
> > student's conflict with an abusive teacher.   
> > 
> > Renee
> 
> Well, we are kind of back to SHOULDS again.  You bring up some 
good 
> points.  My answers:
> 
> YOU CAN'T DISMISS ABUSE.  I'm sorry, it doesn't matter what's at 
> stake.  And I mean that quite literally.

Renee:

I'm not dismissing the abuse, and in Real Life the likes of Snape 
ought to be brought to justice. But I do suspect JKR is not going to 
address this particular abuse directly - meaning that she won't have 
Harry (or anyone else, for that matter) give Snape his just deserts 
for what he does to some of his students. 

That abuse as such is horrible and ought to have severe consequences 
for the abuser doesn't mean the fictional character Severus Snape 
will be directly punished for his abuse of Harry, or even cured of 
this evil habit. JKR has a rather backhanded way of meting out 
justice. (The cases of Lupin and Sirius come to mind.) My guess 
would be that Snape will meet his fate as an ultimate consequence of 
his treatment of Harry, but that there won't be a straight arrow 
pointing from one to the other.  

Dzeytoun:
> As for the House Point issue, don't know how I would answer that 
in 
> the should realm.  In the realm of what we'll see in the books - 
> well, as you say, it hasn't made a difference up to this point and 
I 
> rather think that things like House Cups aren't going to weigh 
very 
> heavily on Harry's mind in the last two books.  I doubt anybody 
else 
> is going to worry all THAT much about them, either.

Renee: 
To be honest, so do I. But given the fact that Harry is supposed to 
vanquish Voldemort or die, I doubt putting Snape in place is going 
to be foremost on his agenda, once he's gone through all the 
traditional stages of mourning. It's a matter of priorities. 

For whatever you say, Voldemort is worse than Snape. Snape treats 
Harry like filth. But Voldemort tried to kill Harry when he was a 
baby and only failed because Lily threw herself before his wand. 
Voldemort has caused the deaths of many and incites his servants to 
murder. Or so we're told. The main problem, IMO, is that while JKR 
is very succesful in showing us how evil Snape is, she's much less 
succesfull in showing us how evil Voldemort is. 

That's also my main gripe with the series at this moment: that the 
fallibity, nastiness, untrustworthiness, selfishness, aggression, 
stupidity, cruelty and what-have-you of the good guys is depicted so 
much more convincingly than the evil of Voldemort c.s. 

Renee