Snape--Abusive?

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 114936


Alex Boyd wrote:
> At the risk of re-opening a can of worms, I'd like to pose the
> question of whether folks think that Snape's behavior towards Harry
> *really* constitues abuse.
> 
> <snip> The official role of a teacher is to teach subject matter,
not to provide emotional nurturance. <snip> "Being nice to Harry" is
not Snape's job. <snip>

Carol responds:
Yes! Unlike Muggle schools, which seem to have largely forgotten not
only the Three R's but history, geography, and science in favor of sex
education, drug education, and self-esteem training (I'm speaking here
solely of the U.S. though a similar trend may be occurring in Britain;
I don't know), Hogwarts still concentrates on teaching the subjects
that young people, in this case young witches and wizards need to
learn to earn a living--and indeed to survive--in the WW. To be sure,
Binns and Trelawney may not be teaching their students much of value
and the kids' DADA training has been extremely haphazard, but Snape,
IMO, knows what he's doing. He has a clearly structured curriculum, he
expects his students to pay attention and follow directions, and he
also expects a high percentage of them to pass their OWLs. If he's
speaking the truth in OoP, which we have no reason to doubt, his
record as a teacher supports this expectation. He is teaching them
what they need to know to pass their OWLs--and, I would venture to
say, a great deal more, including the making of antidotes, which will
assuredly have practical applications outside the classroom. He knows
his subject very well, and he is teaching that subject--not feel-good
fluff or self-esteem. No emotional nurturance in his classes (or
McGonagall's or anyone's except Flitwick's, from what we've seen).
Since he WW does not have teachers colleges or even universities,
Snape is undoubtedly using the methods he observed in his own
education. He has never heard of political correctness (or "diversity"
or any of our postmodern notions of what education ought to be), and I
think he would be appalled at the absence of scholastic rigor in our
present-day classrooms. He is there to teach his subject; his students
are there to learn it. They fail to do so at their very real peril.
Potions is not playtime, and Snape, like McGonagall, is not their
equal or their friend but their superior in knowledge and experience.
He knows what they need to know, and they would do well to learn it.


Alex wrote:
> Harry has plenty of other places to look for emotional support  (not
as many as he would if he weren't an orphan, of course, but that's
life).  He has his friends, the adult weasleys, Dumbledore, Hagrid,
and McGonagall.  He doesn't *need* emotional support from Snape the
way he would if Snape was (shudder) his father.  
> 
> This is not to say that a teacher can't be emotionally abusive.
However, I doubt whether Snape's behavior is extreme enough to warrant
that definition. As I see it, there are three major criteria to think
of: the behavior itself, Snape's intent, and the effect of the
behavior on Harry.  
> 
> The behavior we can see on the page. What has Snape done? He's asked
Harry questions he wouldn't reasonably be expected to know the answers
to in his first week of school. He's capriciously graded a couple of
his assignments. He's blamed Harry for incidents of classroom
misconduct in which Harry was not the instigator or sole participant.
 These behaviors are all unprofessional and inapproriate, but I'm not
sure I'd call them abusive. (the capricious grading is what bothers me
most, as a teacher.)

Carol responds:
The marks which Harry takes to be zeroes (in one case he's told it's a
zero) don't seem to have affected Harry's end-of-year marks. He has
always passed Potions, and we have not once heard him (or Ron or
Hermione or even Neville) complain about the unfairness of the marks.
And when Snape says he's going to mark the essays with the grades they
would receive if they were the written portion of the OWLs, Harry
knows that his D is deserved, and even Hermione (who gets an A for
average) considers the mark to be fair and states that they need to
work harder). Draco laughs because other students received a D, but he
doesn't wave his paper around for everyone to see. It's a safe bet
they he got an A like Hermione, not an E or (mental block here for the
highest grade), or he'd have shown his high mark to everyone. In other
words, however much Snape seems to be favoring the Slytherins, the
marks that matter appear to be fair. (Of course we have yet to see
Harry's OWL marks, but they weren't administered by Snape. I'm betting
he received an E and will be allowed into NEWT Potions even if it
requires special dispensation from Dumbledore to put him there.)
> 
Alex wrote:
> What about Harry's reaction?  If he was crying himself to sleep on a
regular basis, having horrible nightmares about potions class,
becoming physically ill on days when he was supposed to have class
with Snape, or otherwise showing signs of extreme stress or anxiety,
then I'd consider assigning the label of "abuse" to Snape's behavior.
 But he isn't. He dislikes Potions (most kids have a class or two that
they don't like). He gripes about it. He displays a reasonable and
healthy level of anger. Occasionally he thinks Snape might be trying
to kill him, but he's always (so far at least) been proved wrong about
that. It looks to me as if he considers himself unfairly treated, but
not abused. 

Carol responds:
Exactly. The narrator is presenting Snape from Harry's POV. Harry
"knows" that Snape "hates" him and/or is trying to poison him. But
Snape, assuming that he prefers his Potions position to life in
Azkaban, is unlikely to poison any student (or even a student's
toad--he knew Hermione would help Neville get the potion right). And
what Harry "knows" is often wrong, from his early belief that Snape
was causing his scar to burn to his certainty that Sirius was being
tortured by Voldemort. Or, on several occasions, his "knowledge" that
he's going to die. (Snape, of course, also misjudges Harry, notably
his certainty that Harry stole potion ingredients from his office.
Neither has much reason to trust the other. But Harry could be as
wrong about Snape as Snape is about Harry.)
> 
Alex wrote:
> Snape's motivation, we know nothing about. <snip>  If he's behaving
the way he does toward Harry because he *actively wants to cause
lasting harm*, then I'd say, absolutely, yes, he's abusive.  But most
of the other motivations that have been suggested are, at worst,
ambiguous in terms of determining whether his behavior is abusive or
not.  If he's just being an as**ole without considering the impact his
behavior might have, then *maybe* I could see calling him abusive. 
Ditto if he's so totally unable to control his temper that he can't
stop himself acting the way he does (though I think Snape would do
*much* worse things if he were truely out of control). If he's doing
the best he knows how (perhaps using the pedagogical methods that were
in use when he was in school or that he was exposed to at home), then
I'd say no, not abusive.  Same if he has for some reason decided that
> sarcasm and humiliation are the best ways to get through to Potter.  
> 
Carol responds:
I don't have much to say here because I more or less agree. Certainly
he didn't have any RW models or training on which to base his teaching
methods. They have to be based on what he observed his own teachers
doing--and his own personality traits, which include sarcasm and
contempt for ignorance and weakness. The fact that he has tried on
several occasions to save Harry's life (SS/PS, PoA, OoP) despite his
intense dislike of Harry's constant rule-breaking and supposed
arrogance argues against his intending to harm Harry through emotional
abuse or in any other way. I think that from the very first day, with
the bezoars and the aconite, he's been teaching his students in
general (and Harry in particular) what they (especially he), will need
to know as adults in the WW--and in the coming war.
 
Alex wrote: 
> If those who believe in abusive!Snape can present the case without
going into a CAPSLOCK rage, I'd be interested in hearing it,
particularly with reference to specific classroom (or other on-page)
incidents that I haven't thought of.  

Carol responds:
I second this proposal. Snape's emotional abuse of Harry is *not* a
given, it's a perception, based on the poster's own definition of
abuse and the reading of a book that denies us access to Snape's point
of view and deliberately keeps his motivations mysterious. I see no
harm to Harry from Snape's treatment of him (though he does need to
control and redirect his anger away from Snape toward the real enemy),
and we have no conclusive evidence that Snape *intends* to be abusive
or that he would even recognize or acknowledge the (Muggle) concept of
emotional abuse. We do see, however, his opposition to the sadistic
and physically abusive Umbridge. (And he has yet to transfigure even
the most obnoxious or ignorant student into a bouncing ferret or any
other animal or object.)

I'm quite aware that many posters will not agree with my views in this
post because their definitions of abuse or their perception of Snape
clashes with mine. It may well be that we will never convince each
other. All I ask is that my opinion (and Alex's) be respected and that
counterarguments be supported by evidence, not presented as absolutely
right and unassailable pronouncements. JKR has advised us not to judge
Snape by appearances. I think we should follow that advice.

Carol