Snape--Abusive?

[dzeytoun]

No: HPFGUIDX 114945


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, dkewpie <kewpiebb99 at y...> wrote:
> 
> Why? Because it'll make you feel better or something? 
> 

In my case, well, yes.  And what would be wrong with that?  As 
numerous posters have pointed out, one of the interesting things 
about JKR's books is the way they straddle the boundary between 
fiction and our real world experiences.  Whether you think that is 
always good writing or always bad writing or mixed quality writing (I 
would argue for the last), still that leaves us with two ways of 
looking at this.  If Snape is meant to represent a real world 
situation, then real world approaches to this are appropriate 
(removing him from his position, counseling his victims, etc).  If he 
is meant to represent a "fictional" situation, then the tropes of 
fiction are appropriate and one of those (very much) is the Karmic 
Payback to which Alla refers.  Another would be the redemptive 
scenario where Snape changes, admits he was wrong in some sense, etc.

> I have the feeling that if this revenge scenerio really take place 
in future books, the
> popularity of Snape among fans will only be increased more than 
ever.

I agree with Alla here.  The argument is about what we feel would be 
appropriate as an end for Snape's arc and as a "wrap-up" of the way 
he has treated Harry, et. al., throughout the series.  We aren't 
really very concerned, in the context of this particular subject, as 
to what that does to Snape's popularity among fans.  I mean, if we 
really wanted to destroy his popularity among fans, per se, we would 
advocate minimizing his role or eliminating it from the plot 
completely (i.e. send him off as the Ambassador to X and never hear 
from him again) or else give him such a radical personality change 
that he becomes mere window-dressing (i.e. have him join the 
Salvation Army and stand at the door of the Yule Ball ringing a hand 
bell).

 Nothing makes an
> antagonist character more popular than him/her getting his/her 
dues, especially when it's
> done in such fashion like you or dzeytoun mentioned (payback for 
payback sake, like
> typical Hollywood movies, especially teenage or Disney films, where 
the baddies must pay
> their due by drop in water/crap dump over them/hit by a bus/fell on 
the ground..etc etc)
> Best example: Draco Malfoy. The over-the-top punishments he receive 
in every book only
> makes people feel sympathy for him. And JKR thinks it's all Tom 
Felton's fault? 

I agree with "sad" that I don't see how Draco's punishments are "over 
the top" considering his actions.   Could you give us examples?

I've seen
> people saying Umbridge didn't get "enough" punishment at the end of 
Ootp, if she really
> receive severe punishment (ex: got raped, mutliated or something), 
I can see that there
> would be lots of Umbridge Apologists now.
> 
> DK

I am one who things that Umbridge wasn't punished harshly enough in 
OOTP.  That is, what happened doesn't seem adequate under either a 
Real World or Fictional scenario (although if her mental impairment 
turns out to be major and permanent, that changes things).  But once 
again, the question, in the context of this thread, is not really the 
popularity of Umbridge among fans.

Dzeytoun