Snape--Abusive?

[sophierom]

No: HPFGUIDX 114991


> > Alla wrote:
> > 
> > Oh, yes. I don't know when if ever I will be ready to forgive 
> Snape 
> > for the Occlumency disaster. I am of the firm opinion that Harry 
> > would have done MUCH better with the teacher he trusted. Oh,
well, 
> > we will never know, huh.
> > 
> > For a while I was of the opinion that Snape does not value
Harry's 
> > life, not just his ability to learn Occlumency.
> > 
> > Which to me is extreme carelesness, boderline stupidity.

Hannah:
> Hannah leaps to Snape's defence (of course): I never understand why 
> people blame Snape so much for the occlumency disaster.  He does
his 
> best in difficult circumstances.  DD should never have asked Snape 
> to do it.  Snape did his best, IMO.  He stopped teaching Harry
after 
> Harry seriously provoked him.  Even then, he may have resumed 
> classes had Harry asked - he did continue to teach Harry potions.  
> 
> Harry never practiced - Snape couldn't force him to.  He did his 
> best through reprimands etc.  Snape's teaching methods are suited 
> well to something precise and dry like potions, not to something 
> emotional like occlumency.  He does his best, but in this case, his 
> best just isn't right.  And I still think Snape treated Harry a bit 
> better than usual in these lessons (OK, that's still not great).  
> Harry is completely unreceptive to Snape.  He disregards everything 
> Snape says, and doesn't really want to suceed.  I don't know what 
> Snape was meant to do to overcome that.



Sophierom:

After re-reading all the scenes with Snape,Harry, and occlumency, I
have to agree somewhat with Hannah on this one; Snape isn't completely
to blame for the fallout of the Occlumency lessons. Rather, Snape
shares blame with several other people. Snape is partially
responsible.  He's a man in his mid-thirties who can't let go of the
past; if he were a stronger character,he'd put aside his emotions and
teach Harry even after the Pensieve moment.  If he were a better
teacher (and I think he can be a fine teacher, in certain situations),
he'd recognize that Harry does not learn well when being pushed and
goaded and insulted.  Still, Snape does do what Dumbledore asks; and
at one point, he even gives the tiniest bit of encouragement to Harry,
saying, "Well, for a first attempt that was not as poor as it might
have been."(535) From Snape, such a grudging admission is almost
glowing praise! Of course, it's asking a bit too much for Harry, who
detests Snape, to recognize this kind of admission on Snape's part. 
Still, I think it is noteworthy.

Harry is partially to blame - he did forget to practice, he didn't
take it seriously, and he did want to know about the DoM.  I don't
think this makes Harry a bad kid - he's curious and he's emotional.
It's natural.  Still, Harry does have a responsibility, especially
after Snape tells him that Voldemort might be able to use the
connection they have to make Harry do things (OotP, Am. ed., 333).  

Also, Sirius is partially at fault.  The very first time Occlumency
gets mentioned is in the Grimmauld Place kitchen, and instead of
supporting Dumbledore's decision to have Harry study with Snape,
Sirius questions aggressively questions Snape's authority. Of course,
Snape acts equally as immature, taunting Sirius about his "leisurely"
lifestyle at Grimmauld.  But, had Sirius been thinking about the
greater good of Harry and the Order, he should have put aside his
dislike of Snape. He'd sit Harry down and say, Look, I know you don't
like Snape, but you need to work hard at this, for your own good and
for the good of the Order.  Unfortunately, that's completely out of
character for Sirius. 

Remus does actually say this, and Harry ultimately ignores this
advice: "Harry, I know you don't like Snape, but he is a superb
Occlumens and we all - Sirius included - want you to learn to protect
yourself, so work hard, all right?"(527) This to me is another sign
another sign that Harry wasn't taking this as seriously as he should
have, and it also makes me wonder that if someone else, someone like
Lupin, had been the teacher, how much more Harry would have learned. I
do think he would have practiced a bit more, but I think ultimately he
wanted to know what was behind that door.  He believed he needed to
know. 

As others have suggested, Dumbledore should have known that this was
not likely to work. Ultimately, I think the largest share of blame for
hte outcome of the occlumency fiasco lies with him.   I think, when he
first came up with the plan, he must have figured, what the hell.  If
it works, great. If it doesn't work, we're as bad off as we were
before (harry's been having these dreams long before this, and he's
been wanting to find out what happens next - if Occlumency had never
been an option, he'd still have tried to find out what was behind that
door because he's curious.) Dumbledore knew, however, that Occlumency,
while something Harry needed to learn, was not the only answer to
keeping Harry out of the DoM. As DD himself admits in OotP (Am Ed), 

"It is my [italics] fault Sirius died...Or I should say almost my
fault - I will not be so arrogant as to claim responsibility for the
whole...You should never have believed for an instant that there was
any necessity for you to go to the Department of Mysteries tonight. 
If I had been open with you, Harry, as I should have been, you would
have known a long time ago that Voldemort might try and lure you to
the Department of Mysteries, and you would never have been tricked
into going there tonight.  And Sirius would not have had to come after
you.  That blame lies with me, and with me alone."  (825-826)

I adore Dumbledore. I'm not a believer of the ESE!Dumbledore theory,
nor do I think he wants to be a puppetmaster any more than he has to
in order to prosecute a successful war.  But I believe he's right
here.  He knew, better than anyone, the personalities involved in this
scenario: Harry's curiosity and "saving people thing"; Sirius's
recklnesses; Severus's inability to let the past go.  He only turned
to Occlumency because he himself did not want to tell Harry about the
prophecy.  He dreaded telling him that he was, in effect, a weapon,
the only weapon to defeat Voldemort. It's the great paradox of the
series (and life?) that love is what makes the protagonists strong,
human, alive, and it's also what makes them weak, flawed, vulnerable.
 It's true for Harry, who goes after Sirius out of love for his
godfather; and it's true for Dumbledore, who I think loves Harry like
a grandson, and because of this, dreads telling him that he will have
to kill or be killed.