[HPforGrownups] Charlie Weasley's age (Was: JKR update re: Colin)

[Lindsay W.]

No: HPFGUIDX 115086



>
>Carol responds:
>Of course you know about the update to her site since you posted this,
>so I won't say any more on that topic. But, yes, she is human, as she
>has shown a number of times with inconsistencies like the date of Sir
>Nick's death or the number of students at Hogwarts. And her statement
>that Charlie is three years older than Percy may take care of his not
>being Seeker when Harry entered Hogwarts, but it still doesn't resolve
>the problem of its being seven years since Gryffindor won the
>Quidditch Cup. Charlie was the best Seeker Hogwarts ever had before
>Harry, yet Gryffindor never won during the whole seven years he was on
>the team? Or am I misremembering McGonagall's words and the time frame
>here?
>
>Carol, who knows she ought to look it up but is bound and determined
>to get caught up on posting instead

Lawless replies:
This has been running through my mind over and over, because I always had 
Charlie pegged as three to four years older than Percy before she answered 
this question, but that odd comment from Fred in Chapter 9 of PS/SS made me 
halt:

"I tell you, we're going to win that Quidditch cup for sure this year," 
said Fred. "We haven't won since Charlie left, but this year's team is 
going to be brilliant. You must be good, Harry, Wood was almost skipping 
when he told us."

Now, if Charlie is three years older than Percy, that means that in 
90'-91', he would've been in his seventh year at Hogwarts, which is the 
year before Harry came.  By Fred's comment, Charlie won it in his seventh 
year of school, but if it was 90-91, that wouldn't make sense, since it 
would be just last year for them.

Unless, of course, Charlie left Hogwarts early - which is unlikely, as we 
would've most likely heard about it.  Not completely unheard of, but I 
don't think Charlie Weasley did leave Hogwarts early.

But let me go out on a limb here, and say, perhaps Charlie is three years 
older than Percy - BUT - four school years above him.  Their birthdays are 
as such that Percy is probably a bit old for his year (his attitude in 
school can attest for that!) and/or Charlie is a bit young for his.  And it 
makes Charlie's last year at Hogwarts as being 89'-90', which is acceptable 
for Fred's comment.

Now, the Quidditch Cup and the House Cup are two completely separate 
things, as Ron tells us in Chapter 12 of PS/SS, when he's looking to the 
Mirror of Erised:

"I am -- I'm wearing the badge like Bill used to -- and I'm holding the
house cup and the Quidditch cup -- I'm Quidditch captain, too."

So, the Quidditch Cup goes to whoever is wins the Quidditch Final, and the 
House Cup goes to who wins the house championship.

In fact, McGonagall told us what wins the House Cup in Chapter 7 of PS/SS:

"At the end of the year, the house with the most points is awarded the 
house cup, a great honor."

Now Nick is the first one to tell us about the Slytherins six-year winning 
spree in Chapter 7 of PS/SS:

"So -- new Gryffindors! I hope you're going to help us win the house 
championship this year? Gryffindors have never gone so long without 
winning. Slytherins have got the cup six years in a row!"

Now since Gryffindor first-years aren't on the Quidditch team, and Nick is 
asking for their help, then the house championship must refer to the House 
Cup, separate from the Quidditch Cup.

But it appears otherwise, we run into a problem with Quidditch vs. house 
championship.

Chapter 13 of PS/SS:

"If they won their next [Quidditch] match, against Hufflepuff, they would 
overtake Slytherin in the house championship for the first time in seven 
years."

And to confirm that they're not just talking about Gryffindor (also Chapter 
13, PS/SS):

"The idea of overtaking Slytherin in the house championship was wonderful, 
no one had done it for seven years, but would they be allowed to, with such 
a biased referee?"

Apparently, by that, the Quidditch season influences who wins the House 
Cup.  How?  It seems that teams get house points for winning matches (and I 
assume house points for playing spectacularly) as Percy shows us in Chapter 
11 of CoS:

"Oh, hello, Harry," he said. "Excellent flying yesterday, really excellent. 
Gryffindor has just taken the lead for the House Cup - you earned fifty 
points!"

And winning the Quidditch Cup also gives (I assume) house points - or if 
not, it influences the House Cup, as we see in Chapter 22 of PoA:

"Gryffindor House, meanwhile, largely thanks to their spectacular 
performance in the Quidditch Cup, had won the House championship for the 
third year running."

So Charlie won the Quidditch Cup in his seventh year, but Slytherin still 
had enough points to win House championship for the last seven years 
(probably care of Snape ;P).  But our problem isn't solved YET.  In PoA, we 
have a very incriminating statement made by Wood in Chapter 15:

"Gryffindor hasn't won [the Quidditch Cup] for seven years now."

Rowling just likes the number seven a bit too much, because by that 
statement, the last time Gryffindor won the Quiditch Cup was in 
87'-88'!  And that completely outright contradicts Fred's statement in 
PS/SS if Charlie is 3-4 years above Percy.

Luckily, there's not really any conflicting House Cup/Quidditch Cup themes 
in GoF/OotP, so we can begin to conclude what we've learned.

But things don't add up.  So here's four possibilities:

1) Fred's original statement is wrong - hey, it was the first book, Rowling 
is allowed to make a mistake or two, right?  Fred probably should've said 
something that agreed to this statement in Chapter 15 of PoA:

"The whole of Gryffindor House was obsessed with the coming 
match.  Gryffindor hadn't won the Quidditch Cup since the legendary Charlie 
Weasley (Ron's second oldest brother) had been seeker."

It confirms that Charlie Weasley won the Quidditch Cup, but not that he won 
it in his last year.  He would've won it last in 87'-88' to agree with 
Wood's statement in PoA.  That also corrects the "it was just last year" 
problem with Charlie's age, so we can assume he is only three years above 
Percy, again, and that he won in his fourth year.  A bit young, yes, but 
not unheard of.  Assume that he's four school years above Percy, and it 
puts him in his fifth year - which considering Wood was captain in his 
fifth year, again, it isn't completely bogus.

2) Wood's statement is wrong, because Rowling is bad at math and has a 
number seven-orientated mind (and I can see how she'd assume it was seven 
years, by a trick of the mind when dealing with school years like 
this).  We can assume Fred is true, though we would still have to put 
Charlie at four school years above Percy at Hogwarts.

3) Both Fred AND Wood were wrong, and Charlie is just three years above 
Percy, and won the Quidditch Cup in his seventh year of Hogwarts, which 
would also agree with the statement I quoted in option 1.  Rowling made 
some mistakes, oh well, it happens.

4) Sometime between PoA and now, Rowling has decided to close the age gap 
between Percy and Charlie, but that originally Charlie was a bit more than 
three years older.  She changed her mind, and won't own up to it. =P

While option 1 clears things up a bit more nicely, I'm going to probably 
assume that option 2 is probably what happened.  I would also go for 3, and 
4 is a worst-case scenario.

Whew, that was a bit longer than I thought.  Hope this helps, Carol.

--Lawless