OotP Harry not a prefect & his Inner Voice

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 115133


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "delwynmarch" <delwynmarch at y...>
wrote:
> 
> Steve bboyminn wrote :
> "As far as Dean and Seamus, I'm sorry but I have to say that if they
> were outstanding in any way, they would have ...well, you know...
> stood out. ... Seamus and Dean could be 'Lord and Master' of one 
> thing or another, but again that would stand out, and that which 
> stands out gets noticed."
 
> Del replies :
> Don't forget that you're talking about someone who doesn't even know
> the name of someone he's had a common class with for several years
> (Theo Nott). 

bboyminn:

Well, then I guess we have to agree to disagree. I think it is crystal
clear that Harry and Ron are the only likely candidates after all the
available students have been evaluated. Dumbledore gave his reasons
for not choosing Harry, and that leaves Ron.

I will agree with your point that Harry is very socially isolated. He
doesn't mix very much. He has two /best/ friends and that forms a
world that is safe and confortable for him. However, it's reasonable
to assume that if any of them were asked, all the boys in Harry's dorm
would consider themselves friends with the others. But while Harry is
generally friends with Dean and Seamus, he is /best/ and safest
friends with Ron.

To your point about Theo Nott. There is a big difference between one
obscure student who has never gotten /in your face/ who is in a house
that you are on generally bad terms with, and the boys who have lived
in the same room with you for 5 years. I think it is safe to say Harry
and Ron are friends with Seamus, Dean, and Neville, and have had many
conversation, and more importantly overheard many conversations
between the various members of that dorm room. Given that close
proximity, they have to have far more knowledge than has been
explicitly said in the book. So, while I am contradicting myself ever
so slighlty, I still take the position, that if Deam and Seamus had
done or were involved in anything outstanding, it would have stood out
and we would know about it. Even if our knowledge was very indirect
and 'in-passing'.



> 
> bboyminn wrote :
> "Given what we know, other than being /somewhat/ less inclined to 
> get into trouble, have they (Dean and Seamus) ever taken any 
> initiative and applied it toward an important and productive end? 

> Del replies :
> And why ? Because they never had the *opportunity* to do anything.
> As far as I can remember, we never saw them *refusing* to go on
> adventures, but they were never given a chance to do so. ...edited..
>

bboyminn:

A fair point, Harry gained some of his information due to
circumstances that only he could be in. For example, going to
Gringotts with Hagrid and picking up a mysterious package from a high
security vault. But Harry does have a choice about what he does with
what he knows. He can take a common "hey, I'm just a kid; let the
adults worry about it" attitude. Most kids would pass the Gringotts
trip off as a curious but mostly distracting event, and move on to
more important things like music, clothes, friends, and school. Rarely
are kids ever interested in the things grown ups are doing. 

In Chamber of Secrets, most kids are on equal footing. Other than
Harry dire warning from Dobby, Harry doesn't know any more about what
is going on than anyone else. But he is not willing to stand-by, and
wait and worry with everyone else. He is curious, concerned, and
seeking knowledge. Other students are not persuing a solution, they,
including Seamus and Dean, are sitting back waiting and hoping for the
teachers and Dumbledore to figure it out. 

I'm not discounting your statements completely, it's entirely possible
that Dean and Seamus do have good leadership skills. In fact, most
people when thrust into a leadership situation are able to function
adequately. I'm not much of a leader myself, don't like being in front
of the crowd, or in the forefront of the action, but I am intelligent
and capable enough to respond and function well when that situation is
demanded of me. Dean and Seamus could easily be the same. Again, I'm
not trying to diminish Seamus and Dean in any way.

An illustration.... In an army there are many leaders. A lieutenant is
a leader and has the direct responsibility for making decision and has
the immediate and ultimate responsibility for the men under him, but
he's not a general. In this analogy, if Seamus and Dean are
lieutenants, then Harry is a general and Ron is a colonel; relatively
speaking. 

So, while re-enforcing my own point and accepting yours, just because
you aren't /the/ leader doesn't mean you can't be /a/ leader.

Del continues:
 
> And by the way : Prefects are *not* war leaders, but rule enforcers.
> Ican hardly see Harry telling others to follow the rules, when he
> himself never did ! That would be plain and simple hypocrisy.
> 
> In short : Harry is indeed the perfect choice if one is looking for
> a battle leader. But he's not a good choice for a Prefect. And no, 
> IMO, the two are not the same.
> 
> Del

bboyminn:

All very true, but if you make your judgement based on what is common
and ordinary, then virtually anyone could handle the duties of a
Prefect. Prefect have routine duties, which most people could handle,
but more importantly, they have substantial responsibilities. When
things are not so ordinary, then we have the true test of the quality
of a Prefect. 

Yes, Prefectship itself is not a war, although I suspect some
frustrated Prefects might argue the point, but a heavily weighing
factor in the selction process is logically base more in how a person
will react to the extraordinary than to the ordinary.

In PoA, Prefects and Head Persons were called upon to perform duties
far more demanding and important then reminding students not to run in
the hallways. The true test of a Prefest is not can he step up and
deal with minor routine occurances, but can he be /depended on/ to
step up and be effective in out of the ordinary situations. Dean and
Seamus could /maybe/ do that, but Harry and Ron have already
demonstrated that they can.

So, while I do see your position, I am firm in mine.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)