Snape--Abusive?

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 115214


Siriusly Snapey Susan Said:
> > I don't want to get into a "But he's justified..." argument about
> > either Snape OR Harry here, because that's not the point I'm 
> > trying to make.  (Both have been at fault, imo, especially if we 
> > bring Occlumency into things.)  But Snape is a bright guy, no?  
> > Snape is an insider, no?  Snape is also someone who can clearly 
> > picture what Voldy's capable of, no?  Then he should comprehend 
> > the importance of Harry learning.  Yes, he gets angry 
> > understandably when Harry doesn't try hard enough, but his 
> > sarcasm and humiliating remarks and unfair punishments DON'T do 
> > anything to alleviate Harry's attitude; they only exacerbate it 
> > and keep the cycle going.


Amandageist wrote: 
> Again, it may be that he *has* to take this tack, and part of his
> frustration (coming out as sarcasm and sniping) is that he must. 
> Voldemort knows his position and would be suspicious if he found no 
> memories of teaching Harry or Harry's friends in Snape's mind--but 
> he would also be suspicious if he found Snape being a very 
> effective teacher, arming Voldemort's enemy against him.
> 
> There is a great need for Harry to survive and be equipped against
> Voldemort; but there is also a great need for a spy in the enemy's 
> camp, which I think Snape is. Until some final confrontation, Harry 
> is just one of the ways "our side" is resisting Voldemort, and 
> Snape is a key and dangerous part of that. His role as a teacher 
> pales beside it. And so, how he teaches may well have needed to be 
> a part of how he does his Order work, rather than the other way 
> around.


SSSusan:
I'm one of those folks who has argued in the past that *part* of 
Snape's behavior towards Harry/Gryffindors may be attributable to his 
need to maintain a cover.  *I* tend to think that cover is more for 
the children-of-DEs in his class, who might be reporting back to 
mumsie & daddy, though, NOT necessarily for Voldy. 

I mean, I can see Snape wanting to have a few such ridiculing 
Potter/being unfair to Longbottom memories he could leave in his mind 
in case Voldy manages to access them, but a *few* would be enough.  
He is a "superb occlumens," after all, so we know he can prevent at 
least some access.  Additionally, he has the Pensieve, which can be 
used to store particularly damaging thoughts, such as himself 
assisting Harry or Neville in any way.

So, no, I'm not quite buying that this as *enough* of a rationale for 
why Snape has failed Harry & Neville in ensuring their learning.  
Well, okay, he can't ensure that they learn, but he could ensure that 
he himself has done all that HE can, by assessing how they're doing, 
how his methods are working.  [And, no, I'm not saying he'd need to 
actually "be nice," nor that he should lower his standards; I'm 
saying he might have to *control* the humiliation & baiting he 
dishes, which contribute to these two failing to learn as much as 
they could.]  

I contend that Snape is smart enough & sneaky enough that, IF all his 
nastiness were merely a ruse to maintain a cover, then he *could* 
manage to use methods which *didn't* cause Harry & Neville to 
rebel/resist/defy and quake/bumble/fall to pieces, respectively.  The 
fact that he HASN'T managed to do so--when he's ostensibly trying to 
help DD & the Order--makes me think there just has to be something 
*real* about Snape's unwillingness or inability to control his 
cruelty enough to be certain that, for the Order's sake if nothing 
else, Harry & Neville are "getting it."

I do agree with you that Snape has a large role to play and that he 
has to be careful--I absolutely agree with that.  But **if** Snape 
knows the full prophecy and takes it as seriously as DD does, then I 
*don't* think his role as teacher [to Harry, at least] should be 
paling in comparison to his own role as spy or whatever-he-does.  
Therefore, I think he just truly can't or won't stop himself from 
this detrimental behavior, or he would, for the Order's sake.

Just my two knuts, of course.

Siriusly Snapey Susan