Teen Conflict (was: "Lapdog" and "snivel")

[onnanokata]

No: HPFGUIDX 115334


Dharma:
I'm under the impression that quite a bit of the personality 
conflict between Sirius/James and Snape will come down to the 
assumption that each party must adopt the other's value system to be 
a decent person. > How do other list members perceive the conflict 
between James/Sirus and Snape during their school days? 
 
Valky:
I could not agree more, Dharma. Your impression is the image of my 
basic understanding of the canon.
  
I tend to compound the nature of the issue with the fact that "Dark 
Magic" and "Lord Voldemort" were the bane of the very society that 
these boys existed in, making James and Sirius view of what was and 
wasn't decent quite the highground of the two. And is probably why 
Snape was unpopular and James/Sirius the opposite.

Dharma;
Do we have adequate information on the topic to make specific 
determinations about their behavior?  It would be interesting to 
hear other people's thoughts on this topic.
 
Valky:
There is a plethora of that in backposts if you like.
 
MHO about our use of information on this topic is that a lot of 
information tends to be ignored in the debate, not least of all and 
of most dissappointment to me the fact that *Dark Wizards* called 
Death Eaters were killing people's family members and taking over 
the WW at the same time in the backdrop of the pensieve event. 
 
I find it eternally frustrating that people can ignore this backdrop 
and reduce the 'Snape up to his eyeballs in Dark Magic" canon to 
disproportionate teeniness when debating it. 
 
Fact is, Dark Magic wasn't just *an* issue of those days it was 
*the* issue. And do we adequate that enough when making specific 
determinations? NO I think not.
 
Dharma replies:
This is one of the points that is unclear to me.  What level of 
awareness did the Marauder's have about Voldemort's actions in those 
early years?  They would have been quite young when the rise to power 
started.  During those 11, years marked with "disappearances" 
and "increasing violence," I can imagine numerous possibilities.  And 
I could imagine their opinions changing as they grew up.

Did James, who seems to have come from a family with progressive 
views about bloodlines, really have a great disdain for the Dark Arts 
at age 11?  Or, is this something that became increasingly important 
to his value system between first year and fifth year?  Did his 
family suffer huge losses during another ideological battle, thus 
giving Mr. and Mrs. Potter a reason to raise him with such strong 
ideals that he would be set in a particular moral stance at 11?  All, 
or none of these things could be true. 

Was Sirius just the black sheep of his family?  Did he arrive at 
Hogwarts for his first year ready to reject large parts of his 
parents value system?  Did he ask the Sorting Hat to not put him into 
Slytherin?  Or, did Sirius develop his view through having to have 
relationships outside of the pureblood sphere being in Gryffindor 
House?  Did he always feel that something was amiss with his family, 
or did he start seeing the effects of prejudice on his Housemates 
lives and decide to reject his upbringing?  Again all or none of 
these things could be true.  

Snape could have been going through any number of things.  Was he 
abused in his home?  Was he learning all of these hexes and jinxes to 
defend himself from his father, or did his family instruct him in the 
Dark Arts as part of their value system?  Was he at a young age a 
truly invested in the Dark Arts as part of an ideology?  Did he hear 
rumors of Voldemort, and assume the he (Voldemort) had the right 
idea?  Did his family pressure him into accepting the "Dark Order" as 
the "right" path as he got older?  Again, I'm not clear that any of 
this is true or untrue.

Theses kids could have known quite a bit or almost nothing about 
Voldemort at age 11, when to tension between James and Snape started, 
and then had radical changes in knowledge and opinion by their fifth 
year.  So I could go either way on this one.  How many families sent 
their kids to school with little or know knowledge of what Voldemort 
was up to?  One thing I do feel certain about is the idea that, these 
3 kids were in positions to hear quite a bit of the whispering and 
discussion of Voldemort's plans.  James and Sirius were from 
pureblood families, and Snape was at least in the company of kids who 
would have heard the rumors and political talk from their families, 
if not from his own.