DD and the rat (was:Re: Minerva McGonagall-/Dumbledore)

[carolynwhite2]

No: HPFGUIDX 115530


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:

>>>All this sort of stuff seems to tie in with suspicions that some 
of us
have that on occasion DD seems to be aware of future developments in
the plot. He's totally unconcerned when Peter escapes, he jokes about
Sybill's second Prophecy, it's almost as if the episode was played out
to get someone owing Harry next to Voldy. What makes him think that a
mass-murdering traitor would honour such a debt at some unknown future
date?

He might if he already knew who Scabbers was. He might if he had
already 'turned' Peter; wouldn't be the first time. He did exactly the
same with Snape. No matter what Snape had done as a DE all was 
forgiven
when DD stood up and said "He's on our side now." Was the same promise
made to Peter - "Work for us and I'll do what I can."?

In which case why did he leave Sirius to rot in durance vile for all
those years? Good question. Perhaps he doesn't think that Sirius is
all that innocent a character after all. DD never even attempted to 
get
his name cleared, did he? I wonder why?

Kneasy<<<<


Carolyn:
Well, of course, Peter might not have needed turning, or have done 
anything very wrong if what you are suggesting is true - ie that he 
was working undercover for DD on spying activities prior to James & 
Lily's death. The only information that we have on Peter's life 
immediately after he left school is that he is photographed sitting 
between James & Lily at that Order get-together (OOP, Ch.9). He was 
not only trusted by the other marauders, but by the whole of the 
Order at this point, so it wasn't just the gullibility of old friends 
at school. For some reason, Moody also didn't think it would be a 
problem showing the photograph to Harry either - insensitivity of a 
battle-hardened old Auror? Or some knowledge on Moody's part of the 
real truth?

There is the matter of the Dark Mark. Could DD have seen such a 
magical mark, in the same way as he can see through magical cloaks? 
With DE's he would have known where to look with his x-ray vision. 
[I'll politely step away from the idea that he's been amusing himself 
for years seeing through normal clothes as well..hm, haven't had a WW 
porn thread on HPfGU in a long while]. If Peter had been branded by 
Voldie at this point, DD would surely have known, although Moody 
might not as he didn't have his magic eye until later. DD may also 
have agreed with Peter that for realism's sake, Peter would have to 
accept that mark. OTH, Voldie might not have branded Peter after he 
returned to him, when Peter had nursed him back to partial human 
form, as Voldie was able to use his wand to kill Frank Bryce at the 
beginning of GOF, and was strong enough in Albania to torture and 
kill Bertha Jorkins.

If Peter was DD's spy, what was his mission? Initially, possibly to 
spy on Sirius and Lupin, to discover if either of them was the one 
passing information to Voldie in the year before the Potter's death. 
The most convincing analysis I have seen recently about Sirius's 
possible guilt in this respect formed part of a presentation at 
ConventionAlley this August (Webb & Brown - 'Let's Chat About the 
Rat').

(Melannen):
'If Sirius really thought that dying under Voldemort's torture would 
be enough to save the Potters, and any of them would have done so 
rather than betray, there's no reason he couldn't have done that 
himself. Either he was too scared to die horribly, or he knew that 
anyone, including himself, would eventually crack once Voldemort got 
his hands on him. Either way that leaves him looking little better 
than Peter.'
(Azriona):
'If Sirius were selfless, he would not have given up the position of 
Secret Keeper. Sirius was chicken. Sirius was a scared twenty-year 
old kid who dumped responsibility on someone else and tried to make a 
break for it. Where the hell was he when James and Lily were killed? 
Where the hell was he before that, when he was supposed to be 
protecting Peter as the Secret Keeper?'

Perhaps DD left Sirius to rot in Azkaban as a fitting punishment for 
this weakness. This envisages Sirius as not ESE through and through, 
but unreliable under pressure. DD's little chat with Sirius at the 
end of POA, before he arranged for Harry and Hermione to rescue him, 
may have been more about checking up some old facts, and hearing an 
old confession than any rubbish about hearing for the first time that 
Sirius was misunderstood and locked up in vain.

It's also worth remembering that Sirius was (apparently) never 
actually the secret keeper. He says: 'I persuaded them to change to 
Peter at the last moment, persuaded them to use him as Secret Keeper 
instead of me'. So who performed the spell on Peter in the end? Lily 
or James? Dumbledore? Flitwick? It is left unsaid. It is clearly a 
difficult spell, not anyone could do it. If DD performed it, could he 
have agreed the high risk strategy with Peter of passing it on to 
Voldie, to see if his other deep-laid strategy, concerning ancient 
magic, maternal sacrifice and a wand containing Fawkes' tail feather 
would pay off?  High risk indeed. But it did work, and gave the WW 13 
years of peace.

This strategy would also explain the deep cover Peter maintained for 
12 years as Scabbers, and puts the whole Shrieking Shack scene 
dialogue in a completely different light. We all know from RL spying 
games that it is not unknown for a person to maintain a false 
identity for decades; in Peter's case, this massive investment of his 
life and time was about to be blown before he had a chance to 
complete his updated mission - which was to return to Voldie and 
continue acting as a mole, passing information, doing what he could 
to thwart Voldie's plans. Webb & Brown point to Peter arguing with 
Voldie about his Triwizard plan, and his failure to guard Barty 
Crouch Sr effectively, leading to his escape back to Hogwarts, as 
evidence as to whose side he was really on.

Set against all this is the massive difficulty in imagining that 
Peter could really lie to Voldie to this extent if Voldie is the 
Legilimens that he is claimed to be.

Carolyn
..cheerfully acknowledging the ultimate dark lord of conspiracy, ESE!
Kneasy..