DD and the rat (was:Re: Minerva McGonagall/Dumbledore)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 115757


> Kneasy:
> "Wilful character mutilation" - I like it, though  a trifle 
emotional, 
> I think.


Alla: Emotions are a good thing Kneasy. Really, they are. :o)

Science treatise could be analysed only using logic a nd reason. 
When we analyse HP books, for me , at least, enotions definitely get 
involved, because I am emotionally attached to many characters 
(Sirius is included, of course).

Of course, I'd like to think that I am capable of using logic and 
reason too, but I definitely refuse to forget about my emotions.



Kneasy:

> What character am I wilfully mutilating?
> The one that has made two attempts at premeditated murder?
> The one who sends an unsuspecting student to a werewolf?
> The one that breaks limbs?
> The one that revels in bullying?
> The one named Black? (JKR's predilection for tying surname to
> character is pretty pointed.)
> Black the hypocrite? (His words re Crouch and Winky cf his own 
> treatment of Keacher)
> Black the arrogant?
> 
> All strictly canon.
> If you want to make excuses for him that's your business.
> I'll take the one described in canon; and needless to say I take 
his 
> own words and explanations with a large pinch of salt and will 
continue 
> to do so until he's backed by corroborative evidence -  and I 
haven't 
> seen any yet.


Alla:

Yes, Kneasy, I will take Sirius described in canon too. The one, 
whose animagus form is dog, the one who indeed loved James like a 
brother. (You cited Kain and Avel in rebuttal - true, they were 
brothers, but I cannot remember anywhere in the Tora saying that 
Kain LOVED Avel. Envied, Yes. Loved, cannot remember. On this point 
I am fully prepared to be proven wrong though, because last time I 
read their story a few months ago)

The one, who risked to be recognised, but somehow used his wault to 
get money to buy a  gift for Harry. The one, who ate rats in the 
cage to be closer to Harry. The one, who died for him (this point I 
am still in doubt of though)

I will also take exception to "sends an unsuspecting student to 
werewolf" and made "two attempts at premeditated murder". We don't 
know what exactly Snape suspected at that night. Two attempts at 
premedidated murder, I actually don't understand at all. What do you 
mean?

Of course Sirius is very far from perfect, but I agree with Nora - 
that answer of JKR to me effectively forecloses the possibility of 
Sirius being a trator. Actually, I am willing to bet 1000 galeons 
that if we will have another traitor in the Order - that won't be 
Sirius. Ready to take a bet? :)



I won't get much into fascinating discussion about Peter, simply 
because I am very preconceived against him. To me, from the literary 
point of view , his redemption will be one of the most unsatisfying 
endings, which JKR could do.

I am not prepared to bet that such thing will not happen. I think it 
is a possibility, but I will be very dissapointed, because to me 
Peter crossed all the lines after which redemption is possible. I 
was not very sold on his possible redemption when I learned that he 
betrayed Lily and James. But after he repaid Harry by tying him to 
the stone, I can only say - die, Peter, die.

No, he was not calm, as Pippin stated, when he was doing his deed, 
but to me it does not really matter much.l He did it instead of at 
least trying to save Harry and that is what matters to me.


Although, I admit, I find Pippin's point about Wormtail's calmly 
killing Cedric to be quite intriguing. JKR certainly uses doubles 
throughout the book. I think that second traitor is a likely 
possibility. I just don't think that his name is Remus Lupin. :o)