Teen Conflict (was: "Lapdog" and "snivel")

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 116093


Dharma wrote:
> <snip>> 
>  I'd just like 
> reiterate something that others have hinted at, or said in the past 
> on this topic.  At 15, the Hogwarts kids are 2 years away from going 
> into the adult world.  There does not seem to be much in the way of 
> delayed adolescence in the Wizarding World.  By the time we see
James hexing Snape, they very well could have had some very adult
sense of morality.  Their views on pureblood supremacy really could
have been intellectually and morally very important at that time.  
> 
> They were only 2 years away from being expected to participate fully 
> in the adult world.  At the time the Marauders and Snape are 15
years- old violence is increasing, and they are facing going out into
that world.  Why wouldn't any of the older students have an opinion
about this situation?  James may have initially been popular for other 
> reasons, but his stance against the Dark Arts could have impacted
how > others perceived him as well. 

Carol responds:
Unfortunately, we don't see James demonstrating any such maturity or
social concern. Instead, we see him joking about the werewold answer
on the exam, playing with a snitch, and "entertaining" the bored
Sirius by hexing Severus. If he were so concerned with opposing the
doctrine of pureblood supremacy, you would think that he would express
these views. Instead, all we have is his reaction to Severus's angrily
calling Lily a Mudblood, probably the first term that comes to his
mind under the circumstances. There's no indication that pureblood
ideology is of concern to either boy. 

As for his opposition to the Dark Arts, the only canon evidence for
this view is a statement made by Sirius twenty years later that James
hated the Dark Arts. There is no indication in the Pensieve scene
itself that James is opposed to the Dark Arts and associates them with
Severus. James's stated, canonical reason for bullying Severus is
"because he exists." Any other reason is purely speculative--at least
until Book 6 or 7 provides the missing evidence. 

And if James were so concerned with the upcoming battle against
Voldemort (which again is not mentioned in this scene), shouldn't he
take his DADA exam seriously? Instead, he is tracing the letters LE on
his exam book. His mind is not on the subject that ought to be of
great concern if he is already, at fifteen or sixteen, concerned with
the battle against Voldemort. He's preoccupied with the girl he has a
crush on. And as far as schoolwork is concerned, his efforts so far
have been focused on Transfiguration, not so he can fight Voldemort or
even so that he can do well on his OWLs, but so that he and his
friends can transform themselves into animals and run around with a
werewolf. (That, just possibly, could account for McGonagall's memory
of him as a brilliant student. She remembers him in her classes. She
never saw him in any other class.)

And if Severus is so enamored of the Dark Arts, and again it's Sirius
who says that he was, why is he so intent on his exam in *Defense
Against* the Dark Arts? Clearly he knows the subject inside out; his
answers to the questions are so detailed that he has to write in a
minuscule hand to get them in. Clearly he cares about the subject (and
his mark in it) or he wouldn't be obsessively studying the exam sheet
when the test is over. The adult Snape's desire to teach DADA is not
some whim. He cares about and knows about this topic. It would be very
surprising if he did not get an O ("outstanding") on both his OWL and
his NEWT. An intense fascination with DADA is a very odd trait in a
future DE, and yet there it is. It's Severus, not James (or Sirius)
who's studying the one subject that the future opponents of Voldemort
must master in order to fight him.

Dharma wrote:
> I agree that Snape might not have been loyal to Voldemort, but the 
> perception that he supported the Dark Arts, could have impacted the 
> way people viewed him.  Even if some of the students did not agree 
> with James' bullying behavior, they may have held a negative general 
> view of Snape as well.  We don't know why they were looking 
> apprehensive.  It is significant to me that only Lily is willing to 
> confront James. 
> 
> Is the student body generally afraid of James?  That could be, but 
> then why is he consistently described as popular and not
intimidating or overly aggressive?  As an adult, even Snape describes
James arrogant but not as a generally aggressive individual.  The
exception  might be "The Prank," which would depict James a
manipulative rather than physically intimidating
Which leads me to
other thoughts
Are the apprehensive students not interested enough in
Snape's safety to risk entering a conflict with James, who is a very
talented young Wizard?

Carol responds:
I think you've answered your own question here. The student body may
or may not agree with James, but he's popular as an athlete and they
don't want him to hex them. Lily says that he hexes people for fun and
James doesn't deny it. Later, in GoF, Sirius says that James stopped
hexing other people, but not Severus Snape. Severus, of we can trust
what Sirius says of him, already knew more curses than most
seventh-years when he entered Hogwarts. Maybe James, on his way to
growing up and becoming the heroic figure he seems to be at Godric's
Hollow, stopped hexing people weaker than himself--that is, most of
the Hogwarts students. But he didn't stop hexing Severus--either
because he still disliked him "because he exists"--or just possibly
because Severus was the one person who could, and would, fight him back.
  
Regardless of his motivations or the reasons for his popularity, I
know of no canon evidence that James was regarded as a hero for his
opposition to the Dark Arts or to the Slytherin pureblood ideology.
Athe evidence, as we now have it, indicates that he was merely an
"arrogant little berk" who liked attention, hexed other people for
fun, ruffled his hair to make it attractively windblown. Whatever
grudge they bore against Severus Snape (and when Lily asks James what
Severus has done to them, he has no good answer), he and Sirius caught
Severus off-guard and fought him two against one. If that's the high
moral ground and these fifteen- or sixteen-year-olds are preparing to
go out into the world and defend their views by bullying those who
disagree with them or are less physically attractive, then heaven help
the WW.

Carol, who wonders how a kid obsessed with DADA ended up on the side
of the DEs, at least for a little while