Harry

[annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 116234


Ooooo -- my very favorite subject.  And this time, I don't really have
any arguments with your post; just maybe some different shadings of
interpretation.

Kneasy (though you sound more like Barry today, actually):
> Fascinating too, 
> that JKR finds book series where the children aren't allowed to grow up 
> 'sinister'.

Annemehr:
Yes, and I wonder why.  Is it because she thinks the authors' secret
intentions are to keep their *readers* in a state of childlike
naivete?  Or does she just have a natural aversion to it in the same
way that I have an aversion to most modern architecture?  Because I
just figured the children never grew up just because it was easier to
keep writing them the same.

Kneasy:
> I'm not a  fan of assigning RW psychological theories of cause and 
> effect to fictional characters; it's a losers game IMO. Harry can't be 
> compared to a real child in his treatment or his reactions. The only 
> viewpoint we have is Harry's and he obviously considers that his view 
> is perfectly reasonable. There is zero objectivity.

Annemehr:
As I regularly fail to find characters in books quite realistic, this
doesn't bother me in the least, even though I'm much more heavily
invested in Harry than in the protagonists in other novels.  I am
satisfied to find him consistent and recognisable, yes, even in OoP.

Kneasy:
> Emotions aren't Harry's big thing; sure he has some, but they're 
> generally used to add a quick, bright splash of colour to a scene or 
> encounter - mostly anger, recently.  Consider; Harry has supposedly led 
> a life of utter misery for 10 years at Privet Drive. Has he ever cried? 
> A real child would. But despite emphasising how horrible it all was, 
> JKR has never underlined the misery with tears.

Annemehr:
"He did not complain during the evening's detention; he was determined
not to give Umbridge the satisfaction; over and over again he wrote /I
must not tell lies/ and not a sound escaped his lips, though the cut
deepened with every letter." -- OoP ch. 15 p.284 UK

I figure he learned that early on. He doesn't cry when it's happening,
and he doesn't cry later, either, because in a cupboard under the
stairs or in a dormitory, you're too likely to be overheard.  I think
he was about done with his crying at around age six, but we didn't see
that part.

Which illustrates for me his emotional life in general: emotions are
there, but buried under a good hard shell usually.  He controls his
actions, but not his emotions.  When he was angry, he seethed
silently, or uncontrolled magic happened, or he worked some off at
Quidditch, or, in OoP, the shell finally cracked and the anger spewed
out mostly at random.  We did *know*, for example, that he hated being
suspected of opening the Chamber of Secrets, although the author
didn't dwell on it for pages.

It's the fact that the shell did crack in OoP which is going to allow
him to take the next step (and maybe to point out to people who care,
how to help him, though I don't count on that).

Kneasy:
> No; Harry isn't a great one for introspection. There's some thought of 
> course, got to be, otherwise we wouldn't have a clue of what he's 
> liable to do next, or why. But this is separate from the cliched 
> brooding teenage angst of "Why does everybody hate me?" Harry already 
> knows why people hate him - and it doesn't seem to bother him much that 
> they do. He gets by quite satisfactorily with hating them back.

Annemehr:
You're right -- right up through GoF, anyway.  I suspect it's part of
his "Dursley Survival Plan" -- they obviously thought him a blot on
the universe, and told him so.  He reacted with a stubborn belief in
his own worth.  I'm not talking about modern "self-esteem" here,
either.  It's also the thing that made him stand up to Voldemort in
the Little Hangleton graveyard and saved his life.  It would have the
effect of tending to blind him to the possibility that there might
actually *be* something to dislike about him, I admit (which would in
turn bring down upon him the accusation of being "arrogant").


Kneasy: 
> What happens next?
> Good question.
> 
> Second-guessing Jo is a mugs game. We all do it of course,  with 
> success rates varying between awful and abysmal.
 [between Dreadful and Troll! -- Annemehr]
> I  did suggest last year that he'd try to avoid his ordained fate; that 
> he'd try to abdicate from position of saviour to the WW. Opt out. 
> Refuse to play along with DD's plan.<snip>
> Then some person ostensibly concerned for his well-being 
> and happiness may make 'helpful' suggestions. Don't listen, Harry! 
> Don't do it! Oh dear. Too late. It'll be a disaster. Death(s) ensue. 
> Harry  returns to the straight and narrow - remorseful for once, and 
> knuckles down to the greater struggle.
> We hope.
> 
> Kneasy

Annemehr:
That's one possibility. I know I've written before that (assuming he
does *not* "opt out"), as he learns more about how DD has been
steering his life, his already shaken confidence in him crumbles.  He
loses any assurance that DD knows what he's doing about this war and
that ****** prophecy.  To me, it's even more interesting than if DD
died (the "Hero's Journey" cliche).  For the first time ever, DD can
be sharing real information with Harry, and Harry no longer trusts in
him any more than he trusts in Snape.  Then, when the inevitable
conflict looms, Harry has to act.  In my scenario, he hasn't opted out
of the fight, but he still has to decide what to do -- has he made his
own plans (that would be a first)?  Will he follow DD's plan after
all?  Or will he find substitute advisors in Ron and Hermione?

It looks like another case of Harry being led astray, only Harry is
his own temptor.  If this comes to a head in the middle of the book, I
predict disaster ensuing, but if this is the big June conflict, then I
have no idea. ;)

Annemehr