David and Sirius

[Hans Andréa]

No: HPFGUIDX 116418

Janet Anderson wrote:
I believe the morning star is the planet Venus (and that it's also the 
evening star).

Aura wrote:
Dude. That's like... trippy. So will Sirius will be killed yet rise again on
the third ... something?
1. In Dogma (a very well-researched movie), Lucifer is referred to as
"the morning star."
2. When we were talking about the Potters and Voldemort, that "denies
three times" thing kept jumping out at me. So, what's Peter and denying
three times got to do with the Potters denying Voldemort three times? 
Was Voldie just jealous that he wasn't being denied, too?

> Doesn't this prove that Harry Potter is not only very similar to 
> the Alchemical Wedding, but also to the New Testament?

No. It doesn't. At all. It proves that Jo MAY have used some
so-common-it's-part-of-the-secular-culture religious imagery for a bunch of
friends. Or, more likely, that she gave two of her characters very
common names and gave a character with an unusual name a very common
middle name. And she gave a big shaggy dog the name of the dog star. She
isn't Chris Carter or Kevin Smith. She isn't basing her entire series on the
Bible.

--Lawless wrote:
James, John and Peter are also extremely popular names.  I certainly 
wouldn't put it past Rowling to make Biblical references, but somehow I 
have trouble equating Peter Pettigrew with Simon Peter.  After all, 
Peter never betrayed Jesus, he just "fell out" for a short while, before
returning to be what some call the Model Disciple.  I can't at all relate
Petter Pettigrew to that.

Furthermore, your analogy would mean equating Sirius with Jesus, and 
again, I have trouble seeing that.  Sirius is far from perfect, and
certainly not benevolent - though he does have good intentions.  I also saw
James as more of the ringleader than Sirius, or them as equals.

I'll agree that Rowling is telling a timeless story, and while she is 
Christian, I doubt that she is putting Biblical references into her 
stories.  Though, as I said, I wouldn't put it past her - never 
underestimate Rowling, after all!

Charme wrote:
While it's interesting to me regarding the name choices, I'm not as
convinced they are totally intentional.  For example, Sirius (the star)
plays quite a part in the culture and religion of ancient Egyptians more
fully that what Hans quoted WRT to Christianity and Revelations. From what
I've read on Egyptian museum sites about Sirius, I'd submit the "names" are
more coincidence than relative to any Biblical references. I also agree with
you, Aura - JKR has used imagery from a variety of religious culture -
again, there are character and creature names which also hail from Greek
mythology and Arthurian legend plus those with saints and Romans. I suspect
that's just the tip of the iceberg, and there's others I have failed to
mention.

I think it's too soon to say the septology represents a view or story
associated with the Alchemical Wedding or the New Testament. I will say
this, though: I don't believe the septology is as spiritual, or Gnostic, as
Hans believes.  He's free to keep that view :)

Antosha wrote:

Unfortunately for the very interesting theory here, the bright morning 
star cited in Revelations would be Lucifer, aka Venus. Sirius is indeed the
brightest non-planet in the heavens, but it's not as bright as any of the
visible planets, and, like all of the stars in the sky except for Polaris,
rises and sets at different times during the night. It's only visible in the
morning sky at specific times of year. So I don't think that particular
biblical parallel works.

Empooress wrote:
There is indeed a star called Sirius or the dog star, it is however,
invisible to the naked eye. I would think perhaps this has more to do with
JKR's choice of that name for that character especially since as an animagus
he turns into a dog. Looking for some connection between out of context
Bible passages and any of the Harry Potter books just seems to be to be
rather a bit far-fetched.

Kate wrote:
Actually, Sirius is the brightest star in the sky, and I do think that 
The Dog animagus form-Sirius name play was intentional.

Geoff wrote:
I have remarked on numerous occasions that JKR, like Tolkien before 
her, has written a story where although it is not overtly Christian, 
the creators' personal faith has influenced the world view of their 
books.

However, there are dangers in pushing the parallels too far. As a 
number of posters have indicated, the morning star isn't Sirius and 
the other point I question is your comparison of the two Peters.

Peter Pettigrew betrayed the Potters. Simon Peter denied that he knew 
Jesus but the betrayal of Jesus to the authorities was carried out by 
Judas; these were far different events. Peter's was driven by fear 
and uncertainty, Judas' by greed. Peter was forgiven by Jesus later 
and went on to overcome these failings and become a great proclaimer 
of the Gospel of salvation - having had this granted at an earthly 
level already.

So, in a sense, if JKR were using the story as an analogy of the 
Bible story, there would have to be two different people to represent 
Peter and Judas. But, I would agree with to her writers that the 
story line is not an exact parallel and ought not to be. It is not, 
as C.S.Lewis' "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" is, a straight 
allegory of the life, sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus but a 
separate story but with a grounding in the views of the author.

Hans response now:
Thank you all those kind people who have written. I often get no reaction at
all to my posts so this is great.

Thanks to Shaun Hately, also, as well as Antosha, for pointing out that
Sirius is in fact the brightest star in the sky. It is not invisible, as
Empooress thinks. It is in fact only 8.8 light years away.

Thanks to Charme for pointing out: Sirius (the star) plays quite a part in
the culture and religion of ancient Egyptians.

Exactly! To the Egyptians, Sirius was the basis of their calendar and was
the bright morning star for certain times of the year. What times? In
July! 

I quote:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/sopdet.htm
"Sirius was both the most important star of ancient Egyptian astronomy. The
heliacal rising (the first night that Sirius is seen, just before dawn) was
noticed every year during July, and the Egyptians used this to mark the
start of the New Year."
-  also:
"Sopdet (Sepdet, Sothis) personified the 'dog star' Sirius. This star was
the most important of the stars to the ancient Egyptians, and the heliacal
rising of this star came at the time of inundation and the start of the
Egyptian New Year. As a goddess of the inundation, she was a goddess of
fertility."

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/sothis.htm:
"Sopdet is described as having united with the king/Osiris to give birth to
the morning star, Venus, and through her association with that netherworld
god, she was naturally identified with Isis."

The point I want to make here is that Sirius may not be the Morning Star
as we know it today; it was and is definitely the morning star in July in
Egypt and in fact is associated with Isis, fertility (the flooding of the
Nile) and resurrection (the reappearance each year).

Friends, we are not talking about astronomy, were talking about SYMBOLISM. 

Why do I keep saying July? 

If we look at Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, what happens in
July on Harrys birthday? Harry gets a photo of Ron and Scabbers (and the
other Weasleys) taken in EGYPT! But Harrys not the only one seeing that
photo, is he? There is a certain prisoner in Azkaban who sees that same
photo! At the same time as the star Sirius is looking over the pyramids,
Sirius Black is looking at the same pyramid in the photo with Ron and
Scabbers in front of it.

I know many of you believe that many of the things Ive said in my posts are
pure coincidence, such as the predictions I got right for book 5 in April
last year (post 55793). I guess there are many of you who believe that its
just a coincidence that the photo was taken in Egypt, where Sirius is the
morning star in July. But I dont. I believe as strongly as I can believe
anything that Harry Potter is a symbolical Path of Liberation and that
nothing (OK, except Mark Evans) is coincidence. I believe that our attention
was MEANT to be drawn to Egypt to give us a clue to what Sirius symbolises.

However I am NOT saying that Harry Potter is based on the Bible or on the
Alchemical Wedding. Ive never said that.  I have simply said there are many
similarities. Thats quite different. Yes I believe the same story is being
told, but in my humble opinion the New Testament, the Alchemical Wedding,
and Harry Potter are all inspired by the Masters of Compassion (as I call
them) to teach people, through the subconscious mind, that there is such a
thing as human liberation. Ive dealt with that in my essay, Harry Potter 
Christian Rosycross in Jeans (see essays in the groups files). My theory
is that there is only one story, one true story. Thats the Fall, our
present imprisonment, and the long journey back to the Real World. All the
three above mentioned books tell this story, or part of it, and so obviously
there have to be great similarities.

In my opinion Jo actually leaves clues, albeit extremely subtle ones, but
nevertheless, clues for those whose hearts are really open to her liberating
message, to what Harry Potter is really about.

Let me ask show you again:
Sirius, a morning star  OK there are two celestial objects that have that
name, but for the month of July, in Egypt, where Sirius Black sees Scabbers,
Sirius is the important Morning Star - has three friends, James, John and
Peter. In the Bible theres another Morning Star, namely Christ, who also
has three friends, with the same name, and one of them, Peter, does the
dirty on him. And both Christ and Sirius die at about the same age in an
act of self sacrifice. You, dear intelligent members of HPFGU, call that
pure, unadulterated COINCIDENCE?

Just leaving aside the details like exactly what Simon Peter did, or the
thing about the fallen angel Lucifer, the OUTLINE is there for those who
have eyes to see. Jo is giving us a valuable clue about what Harry Potter is
all about. 

I humbly want to inform you that I didnt send you my post David on the
spur of the moment. Ive thought about it very deeply and very profoundly.
For 15 months in fact. (Im the worlds worst Potterholic.) In fact I can
prove it. Have a look at post 68370. This is when I first started thinking
about what Sirius symbolises (or personifies). It was sent on July 8, 2003.
I said there, 
>>Ive been wondering for months and months what exactly Sirius symbolises.
I cant help being struck by the words, god and father. I just dont
know. All I can say is I keep hearing the words in my head: It is to your
advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Counsellor will not
come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. (Jn 16:7) Will Sirius
send a Counsellor to comfort Harry and teach him concerning sin,
righteousness and judgement?<<

So its been 15 months of thinking and researching. Of course I know Venus
is the morning star. Of course I know Venus was called Lucifer by the
Romans. Of course I know the traditional Christian Church teaches that
Lucifer, the fallen angel, is called the Morning Star. 

I know, too, that Sirius is nothing like Jesus as a person. This is a hard
point to explain and understand, but Harry Potter isnt a matter of looking
at the superficial personalities. Its a matter of looking underneath the
surface, ignoring Sirius personality, and looking at what he does
*symbolically*. 

At this stage I cant tell you how I finally worked out exactly what Sirius
symbolises, i.e. Christ as the morning Star, because Im about to start a
series on each character in my new group, Harry Potter for Seekers. Until
Ive described the symbolism of Sirius Black I cant reveal how I came to my
present conclusion about him, as some of the members of Seekers are also
members of HPFGU. Ill do that afterwards if youre interested.

Just for now let me conclude by betting you all. I bet in book 6 or 7 the
Counsellor will come, as promised in John 16:7. I dont know whether hell
teach the world about sin, righteousness and judgement, but hell come, of
that Im sure. He may very well be the leonine chap that Jo told us about on
her slip of paper recently. The lion is the symbol of love, so thats very
likely. It may be the half-blood prince. I dont know who it will be, but
hell come, I bet!

To be continued.

My heart-felt best wishes to you all!

=====
Hans Rieuwers 
see you at Harry Potter for Seekers 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/harrypotterforseekers/
 


Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
http://au.movies.yahoo.com