forms of address

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 116659


Carol earlier:
<snip>
> > At any rate, and I really want a British perspective on this, it 
seems to me that men and women follow slightly different traditions in
Britain. Among schoolboys and male colleagues (in private
conversation), last names are the norm and first names indicate a
close friendship, is that correct? <snip> McGonagall, it seems to me,
is trying to follow the first version of this tradition, with
Dumbledore as a colleague except on those few occasions when her
emotions get to her, in which case she treats him as an intimate
friend. But she's following the *male* tradition if she's following
anything at all.
> 
> Finwitch:
> 
> I think it's more of a case of 'depends on the people involved'. 
> Using someone's surname only does not necessarily mean enmity or
even distance as such...
> 
><snip> 
> 2)We might also look on *other* british books like those of Sherlock 
> Holmes by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Holmes and Watson address each 
> other by last names all the time, and they ARE friends.
> ,snip>
> > Anyway, I'm positive that Aberforth Dumbledore calls him Albus or 
> possibly some nickname - honest, two brothers referring to each
other by surname - the surname they both *share*?

Carol responds:
I'm not sure why you think that I think Albus and Aberforth would call
each other by their shared last name. As I said above, I think that
the use of first names between men or boys in Britain indicates a
close friendship or intimate relationship such as brothers (or
possibly cousins). We see that among the Weasleys, for example, and
between Sirius Black and Remus Lupin. But we also see Lupin calling
Snape "Severus" but Snape calling Lupin "Lupin"--as if Lupin is asking
for friendship and forgiveness and Snape is keeping him at a distance,
using the normal form of address (surname) rather than an intimate one
(first name). And note that Lucius Malfoy calls his fellow Death
Eaters by their last names--except for the female Bellatrix and the
Lestrange brothers, who need to be distinguished by their first names.
I see a schoolboy pattern here extended into adulthood.

Oddly, IMO, we see McGonagall following what seems to be a male
pattern with Dumbledore, calling him Albus in moments of intimacy or
emotional need but calling him Dumbledore--the normal form of address
among *male* colleagues most of the time. Of course all of the
teachers add the formal "Professor" to the last name when they're
speaking to one another in front of the students (Snape uses the
ultraformal "Headmaster" when addressing Dumbledore.) But I'm trying
to see if anyone else sees her use of "Dumbledore" as a male
pattern--like the one you cited for Watson and Holmes. (I could cite
other nineteenth-century examples: Wordsworth and Coleridge, for
example.) And Tonks, whom you cited and I snipped, is also using a
male pattern if I'm reading her correctly--the tomboy type who rejects
femininity along with her hated (and admittedly ridiculous) first
name. (Note that most other female characters use either first names
or the last name plus a title. The only exception I can think of is
Hermione, following Harry's and Ron's example with Malfoy, Crabbe, and
Goyle.)

Do any Brits on the list, preferably male, recognize a schoolboy
pattern carried into adulthood here, for the adult male
characters--and for McGonagall?

Carol, with apologies for repeating previously expressed ideas but I'm
still looking for responses from people with a British schoolboy
background