Wondering.... about Snape & McGonagall

[dungrollin]

No: HPFGUIDX 116689


<Snipping SSSusan's original post re Snape and McGonagall>

Dungrollin responded:
> I think that McGonagall and DD have a pretty good idea of how 
unfair
> Snape is. <snip>
> However, what I suspect that DD and MM aren't aware of, is the
> venomous malice with which Snape treats Harry when there aren't
> any adult witnesses. They're both aware that Snape can be unfair,
> but since they don't see the full extent of his unpleasantness,
> they assume that it can't be doing that much harm. Kids often take 
> a teacher's attitude personally, so they may assume that Harry
> hates Snape disproportionately to how much Snape hates Harry, thus
> laugh it off. Potter'll grow out of it. It won't do any
> lasting damage.
>
> If they were fully aware of how nasty he can be, I think they'd
> disapprove somewhat.
>
> Dungrollin

Carol responds:
As an earlier thread (or probably about a dozen such threads) points
out, we see Snape from Harry's POV. When the narrator says something
like "Snape didn't just dislike Harry. He hated him," we are seeing
Harry's interpretation of Snape's words and expressions. We do know
from Snape himself that he regards Harry as arrogant and a rule
breaker and he has more than once suspected him (not always falsely)
of lying. But we don't know Snape's *thoughts.* Neither Harry himself
nor the narrator who reports from his limited and sometimes distorted
point of view really *knows* anything about any other character. It's
all observation and perception and sometimes guesswork and 
assumption.


Now Dungrollin:
I wasn't actually talking about Snape's thoughts or
motivations, or, indeed whether he really hates Harry, I was talking 
about his behaviour in situations where DD and MM aren't
witnesses.  

Yes, of course we see Snape through Harry's eyes, but unless
you're suggesting that he hallucinated Snape evanesco-ing a
merely not-outstanding potion, or insulting Harry's dead father 
in order to get him angry enough to let something slip (PoA) 
or trying to humiliate a first year in his first lesson because 
he hasn't learned the set books off by heart, you certainly
can't call him even-handed when it comes to Harry.  What his 
motivations are for such behaviour – you're right, we have no
idea.

What I was trying to say is that Snape is clearly partisan in front 
of the other teachers – the Quidditch match he referees for
example – but he's at his nastiest when there are no
witnesses.


Carol again:
In fact, what we're seeing is how much Harry hates Snape, and on
occasion, how angry Snape is at Harry, but never that Snape actually
hates Harry. He repeatedly attempts to keep Harry out of trouble and
on more than one occasion, has tried to save his life. That's hard to
reconcile with genuine hatred.

Dungrollin replies:
I agree that it can be argued that Snape doesn't hate Harry
(though I don't actually think that's true).  But saving
someone's life being incompatible with hating them? I beg to
differ.  

If I were in a situation where I was in a position to save
someone's life, no matter how much I despised that person, I
would do what I could.  Particularly if I knew that that person was 
the best chance of defeating LV.  (I have no experience of what we 
could call `genuinely evil people' like LV – so although
I'd probably not go out of my way to save *his* life, I
couldn't tell you how or where I'd draw the line between
people I'd save and people I wouldn't; suffice to say that
I've never met anyone in my life that I'd allow to die, though
I'll freely admit to hating some of them.)

Carol again:
Where we apparently agree is that if Dumbledore or McGonagall thought
Snape was doing lasting harm to the students, they would voice their
disapproval. Clearly, in the harsh world of the WW for which Hogwarts
is preparing these students, Snape's unfairness and occasional
ridicule are teaching a lesson even more valuable than the potions 
and antidotes they are learning to make: how to cope with unpleasant
reality when they are adults. Those who make life too easy for their
children (like the Dursleys) or their students (Snape with the
Slytherins?) are, IMHO, doing them no favor in the WW or the real 
world.

Dungrollin again:
Yes, we do agree there, but I'll come back to my original point, 
which was that if DD or MM had been present in any of the 
situations I mentioned above – e.g. when Snape evanesco-ed
Harry's potion, I think they would have said `Steady on!
That's not cricket!' (Quidditch somehow doesn't seem to
have the right connotations for that phrase...)

Dungrollin