Time-Travel Again? (Of course we can change the past)

[finwitch]

No: HPFGUIDX 116724


"Richard Jones" wrote:
 
> It is clear from the POA that under JKR's theory we can change 
> history.  True, time-traveling Harry and Hermione didn't change 
> history in the POA — they just participated in events twice and so 
> the events came out differently than if they had not time-traveled 
> and participated in them only once.  But we are not limited to just 
> that — Hermione tells Harry that McGonagall told her that "loads of 
> [time-traveling wizards and witches] ended up killing their past or 
> future selves by mistake" (p. 399).  That is definitely changing 
> history: the "earlier" wizards have been eliminated from history by 
> time-travel events.  How can you go back in time and kill your 
> former self without changing the past?

Finwitch:

Not former self! The former self that doesn't *know* is the one 
killing the future self. (honest, why would ANYONE attempt to slay 
oneself, and even so much as go to the past for it?)

Kim again: 
-- JKR sets 
> the rules, and that has to be our starting point for thinking about 
> time-travel.
> 
> Also notice that in the POA time-traveling Harry wanted to run out 
> of the forest when he and time-traveling Hermione were hiding there 
> to get the Invisibility Cloak (p. 405) and to get Wormtail (p. 
> 408).  Hermione had to grab and stop him.  She only expressed 
> concern about being seen, but the fact remains that Harry would 
have 
> changed the history that got them to that point if he had done what 
> he wanted to do.

Finwitch:

JKR sets the rules, of course - still, as we go with Harry2 - we do 
nothing but witness the exact same events as with Harry1, only from 
different perspective. It's the interpretation that changes.

No, you see - it's NOT about predetermination or choices able to 
change history. You DON'T predetermine something that has happened. 
If you go back in time, that self was there when you lived it the 
first time. You just didn't know it until you went back.

All the what if Harry didn't go to "see his dad" - which actually was 
he himself - he *did* go. He went, because he made the choice to go, 
yes.

We make the choices, yes. We make them based on who we are, what we 
know and how we interpret our circumstances. You see, the choices 
Harry made - go or not - were free because Harry didn't *know* he 
would make them beforehand, only as he made them. But, as things 
were, Harry's CHOICES did not change - only his interpretation.

And even if someone goes back in order to change history, well - I 
suppose then someone else would go and change it back to the way it 
was... and so it didn't *really* change at all..

It's a matter of PoV. Harry under Dementor-attack manages a misty 
Patronus to hold off the Dementors long enough that Harry on the 
other side of the lake realises what was *really* going on to cast 
the corporeal Patronus that chases the Dementors off. Harry under 
Dementor attack - hearing about his parents dying - interprets Harry 
across the lake as being his father. Harry who IS there, knows better 
and casts the Patronus. What you need to do, is taking PoV outside 
Harrys. Set the observer view as that of the Giant Squid in the lake 
or the Sun above them all, just to see the whole thing without trying 
to follow one Harry after another.

And, as I've said before, it's about acceptance. They *could* have 
made different choices. The trick is to accept that they did NOT make 
those what-if choices and stop asking what-ifs about things that 
never happened.

Finwitch