CHAPT. DISCUSSION: Chapter 25, The Beetle At Bay

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 111806

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "elfundeb2" <elfundeb at c...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "KathyK" <zanelupin at y...> wrote:
 
> > 1. .... To ensure Rita never lies about anyone in her articles, 
> > Hermione tells her she can't do any writing for a year or Hermione
> > will turn her in.  But in Chapter 25 of OoP we see  Hermione has 
> > added terms to their agreement.  Rather than just keep silent, 
> > Rita Skeeter must now do what Hermione asks of her. It  seems 
> > Hermione might have crossed a line or at least entered a gray 
> > area.  

> Debbie: 
> 
> I don't think so.  To be honest, there's something very unsettling 
> about the fact that she assembles a pair of people she has little or 
> no respect for (Rita and Luna) and gets them to do her bidding.  
> While principles do sometimes trump the law, blackmailing a well-
> known reporter is a very different and more morally questionable 
> form of rulebreaking than, for example, stealing potion ingredients,
> as it involves the assertion of power and control.  I think Hermione
> is treading dangerous ground with Rita -- and was even before she 
> rewrote the deal.  
> 

Asian_lovr2:

Let's take an cold objective look at the Hermione/Rita situation from
the outside.

In essense, Hermione is saying to a criminal, act in a moral, ethical,
and legal manner, or I will tell people you are a criminal. While that
may technically fit the definition of Blackmail, is anyone really
going to see it that way? Another example; if you tell your kids, do
your chores or else ...no allowance. That's blackmail, but would
anyone really consider it blackmail? I think not in both cases.

On another subject, is Rita really going to hold a grudge against
Hermione for giving her the biggest story of the year. In journalistic
circles, Rita would be a hero; the lone voice of reason standing
against an oppressive government making sure the people heard the
truth. They'll probably give her an award. She be the most in-demand
reporter in Britian. She'll probably be asked to go on a speaking
tour. No, I really don't think Rita has anything to complain about,
either in being 'blackmailed' into being a responsible, ethical, and
legal person, or in being give an exclusive to the biggest story of
the decade.

As far as Hermione being headed for a fall; I think we can all agree
that independant of Rita, Hermione has to screw up big time sooner or
later.

 
> > 4.  Rita Skeeter confirms the Daily Prophet is being pressured by 
> > Fudge ... they wouldn't print what Harry says happened, anyway, 
> > because it wouldn't sell.  Do we want to take a guess on how 
> > actively the Prophet is participating in discrediting Harry and 
> > Dumbledore?  How much is actually Ministry coercion?
> 
> In my mind, the Ministry's control of the Prophet is so complete
> that I think it's more likely than not that it is effectively a 
> state-run newspaper, committed to publishing the party line.  ...
> However, when Big Brother himself calls, the flunkies do what 
> they're told.

Asian_lovr2:

I don't think anyone would argue that the wizard world falls a little
short of a democracy. While an open and free society, it is run by an
assortment of committees which inveriably results in a good old boys
network. For those who do you favors, you do favors, and for those you
oppose, the 'favor' gravy train is cut off. No one can afford to get
on the bad side of the current crop of 'good old boys' who are in
power. So, the Daily Prophet would be very likely to cooperate.

In addition, since the Ministry is complete refuting the claim that
Voldemort is back, the Prophet leans in the direction that the wind is
blowing. Since they can't show Harry as a Hero, which get's boring
very quickly anyway, they show him in a negative light. Let's face it,
we see very little positive news in any medium. Bad new sells papers;
if it bleeds it leads. From the paper perspective, it far more
interesting to show Harry as a mad delinquent.

So, I think we are seening a combination of factors coming into play.
The return of Voldemort is being completely discredited, and the
Prophet is continuing in it's effort to show Harry in a bad light,
except now it is being egged on by the Ministry which is helping set
the tone and direction of Harry's discreditation.

  
  
> > 6.  It's clear to Harry the dementors are out of the Ministry's  
> > control.  Do you think the dementors left the Ministry entirely 
> > with  the Death Eater breakout? ...

> Debbie:
> 
> I think that Fudge's handling of the Dementors exemplifies his 
> approach to government, in which all manner of evil is acceptable as 
> long as Fudge hangs onto his power.  I have no doubt that Fudge 
> realized that the Dementors allowed the breakout to occur, yet left 
> them in charge at Azkaban, just to maintain the illusion that he was 
> in control.  ...
> 
> Debbie

Asian_lovr2:

I really don't have too much to say specifically on the Dementors, but
I do think that both Fudge and Umbridge are going to face a day of
public reckoning for their actions. In Fudge's case, I don't think he
will be Minister much longer. Given that he absolutely insisted and
gave full assuances that Voldemort was not back just days before he
had to admit that he'd seen him with is own eyes, I think he would be
too disgraced to hang around. If he's smart, he'll voluntarily go off
to life of retirement and seclusion.

Umbridge, I don't think will have to face full criminal penalties for
what she did, but it will become generally known and she to will be a
public disgrace. In a sense, she carries a double disgrace, she will
certainly be tarred with the same brush as Fudge, but she has the
additional disgrace of sending the Dementors after the boy who is now,
again, the darling hero of the wizard world. 

Now the question becomes, will two shunned and disgraced ex-ministry
officials be ripe for picking by the DE's? Given their situation, I
think they could be swayed to Voldemort's side.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/asian_lovr (was bboy_mn)