Cruelty vs. "cruel", Harry (Re: Conspiracies and re-assessments)

[naamagatus]

No: HPFGUIDX 112234

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "N. Tonks" <tonks_op at y...> 
wrote:
> Naama <naama_gat at h...> wrote:
> > Well, ok - I take the "everybody" back, but as regards Harry, 
> > we are specifically shown that he does have cruelty in him. He 
> > imagines torturing Snape with Cruciatus, and he actually does 
> > it to Bella. There is also a description in OoP where Harry 
> > says something to Hermione or Ron, or yells at them, and feels 
> > satisfaction at hurting them. Sorry not to be able to pinpoint 
> > that further. 
> > 
> > You know what? In light of this, I think that I would say that 
> > for JKR at least everybody does have cruelness in them (this, 
> > based on my understanding of Harry as Everyboy).
> 
> ----------
> Tonks here:
> 
> I still disagree. Harry is not a cruel person. Yes he may have had 
> thoughts and feelings about hurting someone when he is angry, but 
> that is not the same as being cruel. Remember it is our actions.. 
> our choices .. even when he choices to respond to his feelings of 
> rage, the strongest feelings he has had in his life, he can't even 
> do a proper Cruciatus on Bella. Because he does not have it in him 
> to really hurt another person, even the evil Bella. But Bella can 
>do a Cruciatus because she IS cruel and sadistic. She ENJOYS hurting 
> others.

I completely agree that Harry is not a cruel person. See above from 
my original post: "as regards Harry, we are specifically shown that 
he does have cruelty in him." Which is very different from saying 
that he is cruel. Labels of this kind I think are always relative to 
some mean or average/normal behavior. So, Harry is exceptionally 
kind, because he is kinder than the average person. But that doesn't 
mean that he is one-dimensional - he has other impulses other than 
wanting to help people, including impulses of ambition, fear, anger, 
suspicion, revenge and hatred/cruelty.  

> 
> Humans are basically kind/good, they are not basically cruel/evil. 
> So it follows that EVERYBODY does not have cruelness in them.
> 

My view of human nature is that it is more complex than that. I think 
that we have impulses to be kind, but also impulses to be cruel - 
basically switching from one mode to another according to the person
(s) confronting us (friends/foes). However, as this isn't really 
relevant to HP, maybe we should take this specific discussion to OTC?



Naama