Time-Turning (was Re: Snape and DADA)

[tylerswaxlion]

No: HPFGUIDX 112322

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, chnc1024 at A... wrote:

> I also thought about the fact that they could go back 
> just as far as Tom Riddle framing Hagrid for opening the Chamber of
Secrets.  
> They could then try to send him to Azkaban (I don't know how old you
have to 
> be in order to be punished there I would think it's probably older
than 16) 
> or just duel him then.  He definitely wouldn't be considered an
innocent child then seeing as how he caused Moaning Myrtle's death. 
This would solve the "guilty conscience" factor, but still produce the
same result.  What do you think?
> 
> Chancie

But they *can't* produce that result.

If anyone from today went back and tried to send Tom Riddle to
Azkaban, they would fail.  How do we know?  B/c Tom Riddle didn't go
to Azkaban.  The past doesn't change.

Suppose Dumbledore went back to convict/duel TR.  This
Time-turning!Dumbledore would be going back b/c he knows how evil Lord
Voldemort is.  Let's even suppose he was successful (though I believe
it would be impossible for him to do so) and had Tom sent off to
Azkaban before he killed Myrtle (though I don't know how long he'd get
for simply opening the Chamber).

But if he goes back, Lord Voldemort would never exist--admitedly, this
*is* the result we want--but that also means Voldemort would NEVER
commit the murders or start the war that is the very reason
Timeturning!Dumbledore goes back, i.e.,  if Voldemort never exists,
then the reason to go back in time and lock up Tom Riddle never
exists.  CoS!Dumbledore ***never becomes Time-turning!Dumbledore***. 
And if TT!DD doesn't go back, then who puts TR in Azkaban in the first
place?  And if no one duels/convicts TR of crimes, then he opens the
Chamber, kills Myrtle, and LV comes to power.

The past only SEEMS to have changed in PoA, but Buckbeak was NEVER
executed.  The Trio thought he was b/c they heard the axe fall, but as
we learn later in the book, the executioner was just tossing it away
in anger.  The Trio couldn't see anything and MISINTERPRETED the
sound.  Buckbeak had already escaped, though the past!Trio don't know it.

Harry and Hermione ALWAYS travelled back in time and saved Buckbeak
and Sirius.  ALWAYS.  Their past selves don't know it, b/c they are in
the PAST and don't know the future.  Their future selves know it b/c
they remember their past selves.

The very reason Harry can cast his Patronus is because he knows he has
already done it.  Past!Harry saw Future!Harry cast the Patronus, but
MISINTERPRETED it as being his father, just as he MISINTERPRETED
Buckbeak's "execution".  When Future!Harry is waiting for his father
to show up and save Past!Harry, he realizes Past!Harry's mistake,
i.e., James was never there.  Future!Harry ALWAYS casts the Patronus.
 Future!Harry is always there with Past!Harry, even if it doesn't seem
like it's possible from Past!Harry's point of view.

Ugh.  It's so clear to me, but even re-reading this, it's so hard to
explain.  

-TL