Time-turning (was: Snape and DADA)

[tylerswaxlion]

No: HPFGUIDX 112453

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "twobeaglegirl" <cquinn at m...> wrote:

> 2beagles:
> Okay, this subject fascinates me, but it also hurts my brain.  :>
> Here is the part that always throws me off--there always has to be a 
> *very first event* that occurs before the *time-turning*.  In other 
> words, if Buckbeak *never* died, how did he survive the *very* first 
> time.  H & H had to go through the first set of events first before 
> they could ever go back the second time to provide the explanation.  
> 

OK, still having fun with this topic.

There is NO FIRST TIME.  The "first" time is the ***only*** time.  H&H
go back in time and are there for the first and only time. 

Beaky NEVER dies, b/c H&H always time-travel back and exist in the
same place twice.

It only seems like it happens more than once to the time-traveller
(and us b/c we follow the time-traveller).

There wasn't a first time when Beaky died, and then they went back and
changed it.  There was a time when Beaky ALMOST died, but was
kidnapped before the execution.  The confusion arises b/c The Trio
thinks Beaky is dead, but they haven't seen the execution, they've
only heard the axe fall.  When we are in a position to see the axe
fall, we see that it doesn't hit Beaky, b/c Beaky's already gone.  The
Trio is still on the hill hearing the axe fall and thinking Beaky's
dead.  Future!H & H are hiding Buckbeak.  It only seems like a
"second" time to Future!H&H, and that's b/c they have travelled back
to a time that they lived before.


> So if the two events are happening at once, then the second set of 
> events would have to proceed the first.  

Only to the time traveller.  Not to TIME or to reality.

>Here is another way to look  at it--they had to get to the hospital
ward the first time before 
> they ever went back and created this circle of events.  Right?  


No.  The future selves were already in the past.  A paradox would have
occured if they had tried to AVOID going back in time.

Even though it is "later" to Harry and Hermione, it's not "later" to
anyone else or the universe.  Because everyone else is living a normal
life flowing through time, and Harry and Hermione are living an extra
three hours.  It's just that these "extra" three hours exist only for
the Future!H&H.  It's the "extra" hours that make it seem like this
time happened before.  It happened before to the time-travellers, but
it really only happens once.

Future!Harry can cast the Patronus Charm that saves his life b/c he
realizes that HE ALREADY CAST IT.  

For Harry, the dementor attack happens twice, because he **goes back**
in time and space to the attack.  The "first" time, Harry thinks his
dad saves him.  The "second" time, Harry realizes that the "first"
time he lived through THIS VERY ATTACK, he saw his Future!Self and
thought it was his dad.  

See, Past!Harry saw Future!Harry b/c Future!Harry was already there.  

Past!Harry just hadn't turned into Future!Harry yet.  

These Past and Future versions of Harry are only sequential to HARRY
and through HARRY's mind and pov.  For everyone else who is NOT
time-travelling, there are 2 Harrys on either side of the lake.  One
doesn't appear before the other.  They are there at the SAME TIME.  

It's not a different Dementor attack.  It's the same one, it's just
that Harry is there AGAIN.  He's not a duplicate of the Harry that's
collapsing, he's gone back in time 3 hours.  Future!Harry knows/has
lived 3 hours more.  He's living in the same time twice.

There's not a second timeline.  Harry's there twice.  He is in the
past the one and only time it happens.  If Future!Harry weren't
ALREADY THERE IN THE PAST, Past!Harry wouldn't have lived to become
Future!Harry.  There's no possible sequence.  There was always
time-travel.

Ugh.  Again, so clear to me, so muddled when I try to write it down.
-TL