Time-Turning (was Re: Snape and DADA)

[greatelderone]

No: HPFGUIDX 112766

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "boyinleaves" 
<boyinleaves at h...> wrote:
> Why on earth would a wizard or witch find it unusual or 
paradoxical 
> to be confronted with 'themselves' as a result of time travel? To 
> these people, the unusual is commonplace, and can usually 
> be 'explained' in some manner or another. They have Polyjuice 
> potion! That could be one of many simple explanations for why 2 
> Hermiones or two Harrys simultaneously exist. One of them could be 
a 
> metamorphmagus, or be under some other appearance altering effect. 

GEO: Because they're afraid that it might end up with the wizards 
killing one of their selves.

I 
> honestly can't understand why being seen by oneself when time 
> travelling could be such a problem. Harry states that he would 
think 
> he had gone mad, or that there was Dark Magic going on if he saw 
> himself, yet this from someone who used polyjuice at 11, and finds 
> magic more natural than anything in his life? Yes, it might be 
> unusual to see ones time travelling self, but I seriously doubt 
> anyone would kill themselves over it.

GEO: Again you stated that they have polyjuice and shape shifters 
and don't forget the inherent violence of the place with the more 
occasional dark wizard and witch. If you see an almost exact replica 
wouldn't you suspect that it's some kind of an imposter of you 
perhaps with more sinister intentions and the first thought that 
you'd have would be to attack him? What other explaination would 
there be for someone to turn into you and the wizards don't appear 
to be big on asking questions first and attacking later.

> Oh, yeah, and according to these rules about time travel you guys 
> have been hypothesising, specifically that time travel merely 
> fulfils the sequence of events that have already happened, (which 
> personally I believe IS how it works in HP), it shouldn't be 
> possible to kill one's own past self, else how could one's future 
> self exist to do it? 

GEO: Yes it is. Slow acting curses or poisons fulfill that category 
quite well.

> Whew, this would make Hermione incorrect when she states "loads of 
> them (wizards) ended up killing their past or future selves by 
> mistake". They technically could kill their future selves, and 
then 
> continue on, and return in time to be killed by their past self, 
but 
> honestly, are wizards that stupid?

GEO: Yes they are besides I'm guessing that many times these wizards 
don't know that they are killing their future selves and that it's 
usually a case of mistake identity.
 
> Okay, so here's a question for you. If you did happen to kill a 
> future version of yourself that had returned in time, and then 
were 
> faced with the possibility of returning in time, would the fact 
that 
> you know what your past/future held/holds for you allow you to 
> actually change the sequence of events? 

GEO: As I said I don't think in many of these instances that the 
wizards know they are killing themselves. Again I believe in this 
conundrum that free will is NOT negated and that killing happens due 
to lack of information like the future selves going back and trying 
to figure out who they killed only to end up being their own victim 
or the future selves going back to warn their past selves only to 
die at their own hands.

> In PoA, Harry and Hermione 
> don't know what the past/future held for their time travelling 
> selves, so all they did was fulfill the sequence of events that 
had 
> already happened. But if a time travelling wizard knew what his 
time 
> travelling self would do, or had already done, would this 
knowledge 
> place him on a different path, or would he still somehow be forced 
> to fulfill his 'destiny'?

GEO: No the future, past and present can't be changed. If someone 
tries to change the sequence either he's going to fail or he finds 
out that his attempt was essential for the sequence to come into 
existence(think Terminator I).
 
> If you've ever done any freewill and determinism subjects in a 
> philosophy course you might understand how terribly unfulfilling 
> discussion of time travel and choice can be. I certainly do, but 
its 
> fun nevertheless.

GEO: This subject has been discussed several times, but the 
conclusion is that your free will still remains intact(much like the 
prophecies spewed out by Trelawney). Afterall no one exactly forced 
Harry to fire off the Patronus, it was his own decision just as it 
was Lily's decision to sacrifice herself for her son and Pettigrew's 
to go back to Voldemort.