Conspiracies and re-assessments

[nkafkafi]

No: HPFGUIDX 113189

> Pippin:
> And you're contending that none of those people, the two 
> hundred (and everybody they told), were Hogwarts parents, when 
> it's the only wizarding school in Britain?
> 
> ::boggles::

Neri:
We seem to have this problem in any case, because it is a fact that 
all these 200 wizards heard about Snape being an ex-DE in 
Karkaroff's trial, and Snape was probably already a teacher then, 
and these wizards made a racket when Bagman was in danger, so I 
assume they wouldn't have any problem protesting about Snape as a 
teacher if they wanted to. But they also heard from DD that Snape 
was a hero who spied for their side "at great personal risk", so 
apparently they accepted him being a teacher, although I'm sure that 
some of them were parents to Hogwarts' students. Molly and Arthur 
also accepted it in OotP.

We have a similar problem with Karkaroff, and he isn't merely a 
teacher but a headmaster. Did the Durmstrang Governors fail to find 
out about his former career, or did they consider it a 
recommendation, learning the Dark Arts from the greatest expert? 
Also, even if Malfoy was cleared, you'd expect that some lingering 
doubt will prevent him from becoming so influential, but apparently 
it doesn't. It seems that the Fudge-type wizards still don't see 
much wrong in being an ex-DE. Remember that most of the purebloods 
actually supported Voldy's side for most of the war. They don't want 
to start excluding anybody who had a connection with Voldy because 
tomorrow somebody might decide that they belong in this category too.
 
> 
> Neri:
> > Also, note that after the Pensieve scene in GoF, DD asked 
> Harry not  to tell about Neville's parents (probably only out of 
> consideration  for Neville's feelings, as this "secret" also 
wasn't 
> much of secret) 
> > BUT he never told him not to mention that Snape is an ex-DE 
> who changed sides and spied after LV. DD doesn't even look 
> bothered when  he finds that Harry learned it. It really doesn't 
> look like it is  that much of a secret.<
> 
> Pippin:
> Dumbledore knows he can trust in the Trio's discretion about 
> something like this. And even if the Trio blabbed, who'd believe 
> them? No one's going to take the word of three fourteen year old 
> wizards, when  everyone knows they have a grudge against 
> Snape. 
> 

Neri:
Perhaps. But still, not even a simple request not to talk about it, 
when DD does take the time to request the same about Neville's 
parents? Hardly sounds like proper secret keeping.

> Pippin:
> According to Sirius  it was Karkaroff who betrayed all those DE's 
> and Snape was never even suspected. I'd say the records of the 
> trial were altered, and the memories of those who were there, 
> with the exception of Dumbledore, were altered too. If so, then 
> even  Mad-eye Moody wouldn't remember the truth.  
> 
>  We've seen that the Order isn't too dainty to use memory charms 
> ...remember Marietta? And they've been used on far larger 
> numbers of people. The largest batch of the previous century 
> was done on a beach full of Muggles at Ilfracombe (FBAWTFT) 
> (which I gather is a very crowded place). But we've seen they're 
> just as effective on wizards.
> .

Neri:
200 top wizards from the justice system and from the Ministry with 
tampered memories? Hmm. To quote Uncle Vernon: "no wonder the 
country's going to the dogs" :-D

I actually buy the explanation about a mass memory loss, only I 
think there's nothing magical about it. We have here most of the 
elite of Britain's WW living in denial, doing their best to forget 
whose side they were on during most of the war.
 
> Pippin:
> <snip> 
> 
>   Even if it could be proved that Lucius gave the diary to Ginny, 
it 
> could not be proven that he himself was not under its spell. I do 
> not think Dumbledore believes that, I'm just pointing out there's 
> not enough of a case to convince the Ministry.  Have we ever 
> seen Dumbledore take the law into his own hands to punish 
> someone? He much prefers giving people enough rope to hang 
> themselves.

Neri:
Themselves yes, but I think he'd draw the line when they try to hang 
his students.

And while knowing next to nothing about WW law, I suspect that 
modifying the memory of 200 top wizards and forging trial records 
would also constitute taking the law into one's hands.

 > Pippin:
> I agree that there's a Snape Malfoy connection and Dumbledore 
> finds it valuable, but I think it's white world, or was until the 
end
> of GoF. That is, Snape and Malfoy were associated, but neither 
> knew the other was a member of Voldemort's Inner Circle during 
> the Voldemort era. 
> 

Neri:
I find this a slur on both Snape's and Lucius' intellect :-)

> Pippin:
> Afterwards, Lucius claimed, not that he had never been a Death 
> Eater, but that he had been forced to become one by the 
> Imperius Curse, as some people undoubtedly were.  IMO, 
> Snape  never believed this, and it drove him half-mad to have to  
> behave as if he did in order to keep up his lap-dog role.  It 
would 
> be like trying to act as if he were fond of Harry.  Thus the 
sudden 
> movement when Harry finally excuses him from the charade. 
> 

Neri:
But according to both Sirius ("Malfoy's lapdog") and Umbridge 
("Malfoy always speaks most highly of you") the charade seems to 
continue in OotP. And indeed, this is exactly why the charade was 
needed at all. OotP (and probably HBP also) is when the investment 
in the Snape-Malfoy connection finally pays off. If it doesn't, then 
why have this connection in the first place? Snape could have saved 
his blood pressure.

> Pippin
> who admits Neri's explanation is simpler, but thinks that it 
> doesn't account for all the facts in evidence

Neri:
Carol's explanation is even simpler than mine, but it also accounts 
for less facts. And no theory accounts for all the facts. I suspect 
even JKR's true solution won't account for ALL the facts. 
Personally, I try to maximize the number of accounted facts WHILE 
minimizing the number of assumptions and problems.

Neri