Lily, LV and Harry at GH.

[Hannah]

No: HPFGUIDX 113421

> Hannah originally: 
> > This theory is based on the idea that LV wanted not to kill 
Harry immediately, but to use him somehow.
> 
Lora replies:
> I can see the logic of that, and it even fits LV's personality, 
but I think there's a canon contradiction - when LV had Harry in the
> graveyard, why didn't he just run off with him to wherever his 
hideout is nowadays?  He had Harry there, under his control, and 
still he doesn't think of kidnapping, he goes straight for the kill 
(after thewhole reincarnation bit).  One could say of course that he 
considersTeen!Harry more of a threat and therefore less safe to take 
chanceswith that Baby!Harry, which is a valid point...
> 
Hannah now:  Exactly.  He could bring up a baby to believe whatever 
he wanted him to - this is not going to work with teen!Harry (and 
remember, in PS/SS he does offer Harry the option of joining him, 
which is refused).  As for somehow examining Harry to find out 
what's special about him, he's gone past this now.  He wants the boy 
dead and out of the way, before DD comes looking for him.  He also 
wants to kill him in a duel to prove to his DE's that he's back and 
a force to be reckoned with.

> Hannah originally:
> > she does the only thing she can think of to save her son from 
torture and a slow death/ being  brought up as an LV 'mini-me' - she 
AK's him.  At the same time, LV  hits her with the same spell. 
 
> Lora:
> Interesting...when does the 'high cold laugh' come in, though?  
When LV kills James?  Or when he first casts it on Lily before hers 
hits him?  <snip>

Hannah now: He's laughing before the spell hits him.  The last thing 
Harry hears in his dementor induced flashbacks is LV laughing while 
Lily screams.  At this point both are alive.  Neither has been hit 
with an AK.  LV probably laughs right up to the moment he gets hit.
> 
> Hannah originally:
> > But AK is a spell that depends a lot on the intention of the one 
> > casting it.  When Lily's AK hits Harry, it doesn't kill him, 
because Lily's intention was to *save* Harry...
> 
> Lora: Is there anything in canon for the intention idea?  I know 
when Harry was trying to Crucio someone...Bellatrix, I think, she 
just mocked him and told him...*consults book* "You need to MEAN 
them, Potter!  You need to really want to cause pain--to enjoy 
it..." So perhaps if you don't "really want" to cause DEATH with an 
AK, something else would happen?  
>
Hannah now:  Yes, there's the example with Bellatrix, but also in 
GoF, when Moody teaches them about the unforgivable curses.  He says 
the entire class (at leat 10 students) could point their wands at 
him and say 'avada kedavra' and he wouldn't even get a nosebleed.  
So there's a lot more to it than just pointing and speaking.  You 
need power behind it, and I take that as coming partly from 
intention.

> Lora: I like this theory a lot, it's definitely not one of those 
totallyout-there ones...I think it has a chance.  Of course, knowing 
JKR and her geniusness...  I do think that day/night at Godric's 
Hollow will come into play later, simply because it's such a grey 
area, a blank. JR rarely leaves blanks unfilled.
> 
Hannah: Thank you :-)  I'm glad someone else thinks it's plausible.  
Whether it's right or not, I agree totally that whatever did happen 
at GH that night is pivotal to the whole conclusion.