Was Crouch Junior a DE? (was Re: ESE!Fudge)

[mhbobbin]

No: HPFGUIDX 113772

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "scoutmom21113" 
<navarro198 at h...> wrote:
> mhbobbin:
> The wording about the Third Death Eater is most interesting. If 
> Crouch Junior was conclusively a DE prior to LV's Fall, then I 
would 
> be more comfortable assuming that the Third DE was Crouch Jr and 
> that he had *re-entered* the service. But that is far from clear, 
> and significant doubt has been sown. No resolution yet.
> 
> Bookworm:
> Since reading GoF, I've thought that the Karkaroff/Snape/Crouch 
> triumvirate was too easy to assume.  At the time, I argued Bagman 
> was the cowardly one (because of the way he was running from his 
> debts to the goblins), but reading this thread makes me think he 
> might have been the faithful DE and his cowardice is a cover.
> 
> Canon against Crouch Junior being the third missing DE:
> If Junior was the `most faithful servant' would he have
> shrieked during his trial: "I didn't, I swear it Father,
> don't send me back to the dementors - " and "Mother, stop
> him, Mother, I didn't do it, it wasn't me!" [GoF, Ch30]
> 
> This doesn't sound very faithful.  Bellatrix was standing right
> next to him, so it is probable she reported it to Voldemort.  
Fudge, 
> OTOH, was very quick to have him `kissed' so that he
> couldn't tell anything more.  Was it so he couldn't name
> Fudge?  Or so that no one would realize that he [Junior] *wasn't* 
> guilty of earlier crimes?
>  
> "`The Lestranges should stand here,' said Voldemort quietly.
> `But they are entombed in Azkaban.  They were faithful. They went
> to Azkaban rather than denounce me....When Azkaban is broken open, 
> the Lestranges will be honored beyond their dreams.'" [GoF, Ch33]
> 
> The Lestranges were `faithful' and didn't renounce
> Voldemort.  It doesn't make sense that Junior would also be 
> described as `the faithful servant' even though he calls
> himself that. [GoF, Ch35]
> 
major snips of support for Bagman as candidate for Third DE.
> 
> mhbobbin:
> Interesting how JKR has given us two absolutely known former DEs 
(Snape, Kark.), two suspected DEs (Bagman, Crouch Jr.) and at least  
other character (Fudge) to consider for these three missing death  
eaters.
> 
> Bookworm:
> We wouldn't want her to make it easy for us, would we? <eg>

> I'm not 100% positive of my own arguments here (I haven't
> figured out how Fudge fits into this whole picture), but am 
positive 
> some of you will disagree. <bg>
> 
>mhbobbin writes some more:
I've been arguing against Crouch Junior as the Third DE because of 
the Penseive scene and because it wasn't clear that Crouch Junior 
had been more than a DE wannabe when he was caught with the 
LEstranges. And then I found this quote which had previously, for 
me, gone unnoticed. (GOF Ch. 35, Veritaserum)
Crouch Junior (to DD): "When I had recovered my strength, I thought 
only of returning to my master...of returning to his service."

There is that pesky word "returning" which echoes LV's statement 
that the third DE had "re-entered his service".  IT's kind of hard 
for me to argue that Crouch Junior is not the Third DE after all. 
Still, I expect that the identities (per LV) of the Three MIssing 
DEs will surprise us when we finally learn who they are. Bagman is 
still under suspicion in my book. Maybe DE Numero Uno.

This would make the Penseive scene with Crouch Junior pleading with 
his father an act.  So I'm still hesitant to believe it 100%.

mhbobbin