James and Snape. Was. Re: Snape and Harry again.

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 113796

> > Valky:
> > Just to answer this, You might notice that the English meaning 
of snivelling does not require that the sniveller be crying. Just to 
> > be "weak and unpleasant" which are soft ways of saying that the 
> > person is percieved to lack virtue. 
> 
> Potioncat:
> I understand that.  In my first example below, I did not mean to 
> imply that Severus had to actually be in tears.  In America 
> sniveling, as an insult, has a whining, complaining, running to 
the teacher/boss implication. But it doesn't really apply to virtues 
in general. If you are telling me it does in Britain, then I'll 
accept that. 

Valky:
Well in a way I am not actually saying that it applies to virtues in 
general. Oh oh now I am gonna confuse you.... sorry. I am saying 
that in the culture that I was raised into by my british family, the 
fact that someone does whine complain and run to teacher is like a 
cardinal sign of lacking several virtues. Such as valor, justice, 
charity, honesty. Like I said it would be difficult to understand if 
you weren't subject to the standard first hand. And very difficult 
to explain. 
Put it this way, the way I was raised, the *good* ones will chin up 
and face it, and that is that.


Potioncat:
I am starting to think that you and I are saying the same 
> thing in different words. Your phrase "to lack virtue" does 
confuse me a bit.  I certainly would not call someone sniveling if I 
liked the person, but a sniveling person might still be a virtuous 
person in other respects. 
>

Valky:
I don't have PoA on me because I lent it, but if you could please 
refer to the Shrieking Shack where Pettigrew pleads desperately for 
mercy. Now _that_ is snivelling where I come from. Does that help?

Potioncat
> Please don't take this as sarcasm, but I see you live in 
Australia.  Did you grow up in England?  Because, although Australia 
and England are more closely related than America and England, I'm 
sure there are subtle differences between England's English and 
Australia's English.  I'll bet there are subtle differences between 
London's English and York's English.
>

Valky:
Not at all Potioncat, naturally you would need to question what 
authority I have to make claims like this and your point is well 
taken. As a matter of fact AFAIK there *are* differences between 
Londoners and Yorkers, there are caste differences between one 
Londoners English and another Londoners English, as you probably 
know. 
For me personally I am relaying, what I know of, a culture that my 
family brought with them from England. One that was from the same 
era as Sirius and James childhood, and I am supposing probably JKR's 
childhood too. That, I am supposing, is what she refers to when 
writing the marauders story. JKR and I are fairly close in age she 
is only a few years my senior so she probably is referring to 
cultural standards much like what I was raised to. And that is where 
I feel I have a little of the same understanding of the 
colloquialisms that Jo uses. 
Of course I may be far far wrong, as you have pointed out, but I 
have my doubts about that. If I had POA, I would look through the 
shrieking shack to see if anyone calls Pettigrew snivelling, just to 
be sure, but I am afraid I can't.

 
> > Potioncat:
> Now, to add to the mix, I looked in an older dictionary and found 
> another meaning of snivel that jumped out at me, given the 
Pensieve scene.
> 
> snivel: verb 3. To run at the nose.  4.To utter with with 
sniveling or sniffing.  noun 2. Nasal mucus.
> 
> OoP chapter 28
> "How'd the exam go, Snivelly?" said James.
> "I was watching him, his nose was touching the parchment," said 
> Sirius viciously.  "There'll be great grease marks all over it, 
they won't be able to read a word."
> 
>  and a bit later:
> 
> "Wait for what?" said Sirius coolly. "What are you going to do, 
> Snivelly, wipe your nose on us?"
> 
> So, did Snivellus come from Severus in tears, Severus tattling or 
> Severus suffering allergies? 
>

Valky:
In my experience, it is both. If Severus has a greasy nose *and* is 
a sniveller it makes it all the *funnier*.  


Potioncat:
> And is it just me, or does Sirius sound a lot like Draco?

Valky:
I don't think so, but perhaps we will find that he is. 
The main differences I see is that Sirius is a rebel where Draco is 
a follower. Sirius has a better sense of humour, in spite of his 
crudeness towards Snape, most people found his antics quite good 
fun. Whereas Draco has *nothing* beyond the crudeness.
Among other things but I think those are the stand out differences.
And I think we will find that Sirius wouldn't run to teacher........ 
ever...............