Snape and Harry again (Sirius as Snape's bully)

[Kelsey Dangelo]

No: HPFGUIDX 114032

Feklar wrote:
>> I should specify, I meant 'til he was about 13. By that point, he'd been at Hogwarts a couple of years, in Gryffindor, no less. He would have learned from the behavior of teachers and other students that there were different ways of dealing with frustration, conflict and opposition. He was hitting the point where he should have begun to understand the moral import of his actions. So where an 11 yo Sirius might not know a different way to react or that there was even anything wrong with reacting to things he didn't like with abuse, by 13 he had to have known he was behaving badly. By 15 and 17, there is really no excuse IMO. <<

RL answers: 
> By the same token Severus should have learned the same thing. He was at Hogwarts as a student for as long as Sirius was, he's been a teacher there for 15 years, he's seen McGonagall and Dumbledore and all the others. He should know abusing his students is wrong. Strangely enough most Sirius basher (don't mean you specifically, this is a general observation) are ready to excuse any action from Snape because he was abused by his peers and ignore the abuse he visits on his charges while hating and condemning Sirius for what he did to someone his own age. That sounds rather unfair to me, to say the least. < 

Feklar wrote:
>> 1981 Pettigrew confrontation--again, he didn't care that there were innocent bystanders. He had to take time to track Peter down, so he wasn't in the "heat of battle" when he found him, he could have followed and waited, but chose to attack without regard to the safety of others. <<

RL answers:
> Are we sure SB attacked first? Strangely enough PP had the time to accuse him of killing J&LP and then blew up a whole street, while SB did nothing. For all we know he just wanted some explanation and PP took advantage of his presence to escape (no, I don't really think that's what happened, I'm just saying it's too early to accuse SB of irresponsibly attacking anyone). <

Feklar:
>> I specified he was unreliable about Sanpe's character. We don't know about the facts, but I do think he immediately saw Snape as a stand-in for his family and was probably incapable of seeing the reality of Snape's personality and character. Indeed, Sirius seems so eager to attack and express his hatred of his family that Snape's real character was probably irrelevant. In other words, I think Snape would have been his target no matter what. <<
(snip) 

 
Kelsey:

Thank you RL for sticking up for Sirius.

I'd like to add that I've noticed that we can forgive Snape for his cruelty or past evil deeds because he was bullied, picked on, and abused by classmates and probably his own family. But, for some reason, we can't forgive Sirius for bullying as a stupid, hormonal teenager, when he was abused emotionally and verbally by his own family (if his mother's portrait is any sign). Maybe this is just because Snape is the underdog, where often our loyalties lie. But I've noticed some huge parallels between Snape and Sirius.

Snape's abused past is probably a good explanation for why he became a DE (perhaps the promise of power and respect). But, of course, it could never really excuse it. There's really no excuse for being cruel and sadistic. But Snape is doing his part in the Order to pay back his debt.

Sirius' behavior as a teenager has no excuse, either. It's never right to bully someone or treat them as if he wished they never existed. But I think there is an explanation for his behavior (it's James doesn't yet have a reason). Sirius was abused, too. Sirius' family was quite cruel to him. In the very least, they held him to high standards that he never desired to fulfill. He probably never got the attention and love he needed within his family (part of that elite and cold society). Just as with Snape (later, as a teacher and DE), Sirius' bullying is a sign of some deep hurting. It's not just that Snape was, in some way, reminding Sirius of his horrible family, but that he was someone whom Sirius could challenge, and thereby gain attention.

Just from my own experiences teaching in Middle Schools and High Schools, it's the kids that are going through tough times fitting in with their families, communities, or school peers that tend to berate and put down the others. It's a way to get attention or power. Often, most people grow out of this stage, grow up, wake up to the pain they put others through. No matter how justified the bullying may seem, someone's got to break the cycle (hence why I think Harry sees the scene in the Pensieve). 

Maybe the reason Sirius and Snape can't grow out of this cycle of hatred is not that they haven't grown out of their bullying stage (both of them are good men that do extraordinarily courageous things), but that each of them reminds the other of a time when they were abused.

On the note of Sirius vs. Peter: Remember that that day was a very emotionally upsetting one. Sirius went so far as to give up his beloved motorcycle. Sirius is a very emotional character (look how vengeful he acts years later in POA with children in the room). Even Fudge say he was unhinged after the death of the Potters. He was so upset about Peter's betrayal and his own guilt, I don't think he was thinking about the Muggles around him. Maybe, he didn't even want to kill Peter, but wanted to bring him in to the MOM. Killing Peter wouldn't exactly have been a very practical (since when was Sirius ever practical, though?) thing to do (when everyone thought he killed Peter, they sent him to Azkaban).

In my very over dramatic mind, it was just that Sirius was so emotional that he wasn't even thinking of the people around him or the consequences of his actions. He stuttered for just a moment, hesitated in killing Peter (Peter was his friend for many years), was overcome, and it gave Peter the upper-hand for just a moment. The rest is history.


Kelsey, Ravenclaw, who loves to see grown men cry.