Gilding the Lily

[Hannah]

No: HPFGUIDX 114305

Kneasy wrote:
<snip>
> Most of what we know about Lily (and frankly we don't know all 
that much) comes from others - Hagrid and Petunia most of all.
> Information has been doled out in penny-pieces, a bit here a 
dribble 
> there with very little connection between them. The only really 
> complete and unabridged episode we see is from the Pensieve - and 
even that has aspects that generate yet more questions.
> 
<snip>

> The sequence of events (in the pensieve scene) is straight-
forward;  a confrontation - James and Sirius vs Snape. Words and 
spells are exchanged, Lily intervenes, is rebuffed by Snape and she 
exits stage left.
> All well and good. To the supporters of LOLLIPOPS this was grist 
to their mill; at last! A credible scenario for Snape adoring  Lily! 
Being  a fully paid up  member of the awkward squad I took the 
opposite line - AGGIE - Lily was enamoured of Snape but was 
rejected. There's no  real evidence either way of course, but I 
prefer my  version - mostly because it has the potential to induce 
apoplexy among Lily fans - or Snape-aphobics.
> 
> Whatever. But it's  the intervention that matters. Before OoP was 
> published JKR  said it would provide a lot of information about 
Harry's 
> parents. Certainly it opened our eyes about James, but not so much 
> about Lily - unless it's all in the detail.
> Lily intervenes on Snape's behalf - why? Many suggest it's  her 
love of 
> fair play, dislike of bullying, opposition to violence etc. etc. 
> Possibly true, but  boring. Two things in this scene interest me;  
> first if she's agin fighting and for fair play, why no protest 
when Snape hits  James  with a  spell that  gashes his face, 
spattering blood onto  his robes -  a spell cast  when James was 
otherwise occupied?
> Secondly James and Sirius are very wary of Lily's wand; have they 
been on the wrong end of it before? Or have they seen what she's 
capable of when angry?

<snip>

> It's generally accepted, though not entirely certain, that James 
and "that horrible boy" are one and the same,  but it is possible to 
> construct a scenario that can cast doubt on this
> viz-in OoP we're told that James started going out with Lily in 
their seventh year - their last at Hogwarts. Additionally, they 
married immediately on leaving school (according to the Lexicon) - 
almost indecently hasty IMO. Yet we are also told that at the time 
of the wedding the Dursleys were already married. How much time 
would Petunia 
> (who now has her own house and hubby to occupy her) spend  in her 
> parents home during the school holidays, knowing Lily (someone she 
> despises) will be there? The description "horrible" indicates 
some  personal experience of the person so described, but if Petunia 
(and her character would support this) avoided meeting James then 
who is she describing? Was there someone before James?
> 
<snip snip snip>

> Just a little more on this, another interpretation of Lyn's.
> Voldy's phrasing -
> "Stand aside you silly girl...stand aside now.."
> Seems almost as if it's couched in familiar terms somehow, as if 
Lily was personally known to him already.
> Not quite the vocabulary of a murderous villain finally achieving 
his goal, is it? Not  even any exclamation marks, could even be  
read as more in sorrow than in anger. A request, not an instruction. 
Is that the Voldy we boo and hiss?

Hannah now: I love your posts Kneasy (despite having snipped most of 
this one!)  I have long believed that there is 'something about 
Lily'.  Pre-OotP I thought that there would be a revelation that 
Lily wasn't such a saintly person as we'd all thought - and then it 
turned out that such a revelation was made about James instead.  I'd 
also decided she must have been in Slytherin, causing Harry to re-
evaluate his house prejudices, but JKR went and ruined that little 
theory for me too in a webchat.

JKR has definitely said somewhere that we are going to have a big 
revelation about Lily Potter in the next book.  I'm betting it's 
nothing particularly nice.  Both of Harry's parents strike me as 
having been very forceful characters, not necessarily nasty, but the 
sort of people who make themselves enemies as well as very good 
friends.  Personally I prefer dodgy!James to saintly!James, as it 
makes for much more interesting reading.

Why does Lily have no friends?  I mean, old chums of James' keep 
popping out of the woodwork/ prison/ petshop, all desperate to 
assure him his Dad was a great bloke.  Yet Harry still hasn't met 
anyone who was friends with Lily, or if they were, wants to say 
anything about her.  People like DD, Hagrid, Sirius and Lupin, 
McGonagall, must have known Lily, but I don't recall any of them 
saying; 'Your mother would have done the same thing' or 'Lily was 
good at that too.'  In five whole books.  All they do is harp on 
about her eyes.

LV asking her to stand aside at GH is very, very suss.  I know when 
asked if Lily was a DE, JKR replied 'how dare you.'  That's not 
exactly a no, though.  I don't think she was one - I think that's 
probably too simple for JKR.  But for some reason, LV was reluctant 
to kill her.  One thing that puzzles me; why didn't he just stun 
her/ impediment her/ bind her up? Another is; why did she plead with 
him?  She seemed to have reason to believe that LV, heartless, 
merciless, most wicked wizard in the whole world etc. might listen 
to her pleading.  And this is partly backed up by his apparent 
reluctance to kill her, or even jinx her.

I like the AGGIE theory.  Imagine the look on Harry's face when he 
found out about that!  Funny Snape has never thrown it at him... on 
the other hand, Snape does have a kind of decency (sometimes... OK 
I'm a Snape fan, I need to believe he does).  Or maybe Snape never 
even realised Lily was actually in love with him (the guy's not 
great at interpreting emotions after all).

Anyway, I'm looking forward on the rest of your 're-evaluating 
established character' posts.  

Hannah