[HPforGrownups] Man the canons Re: Snape vs. Sirius (was: Snape's Stubbornness)

[Ladi lyndi]

No: HPFGUIDX 127348

Jen  wrote:

People extrapolate from the Pensieve incident in the fifth year that James and Sirius (especially) are bullies, and that they have spent 
most of their time at Hogwarts hounding Snape. If that's the case, 
and Snape not only hates James & Sirius, but he is also a victim of 
their bullying, it ups the ante even more--what in the world 
compelled him to go to the Whomping Willow that night?
 
 
Lynn:
 
I've been following this thread and I'm having trouble understanding the poor, poor, pitiful Snape or the bullied/victim Snape scenario.  We are seeing Snape's memory in the Pensieve which is filtered through Snape's emotions and prejudices.  I have found with memories that there is my memory, their memory and what actually happened.  Sirius answering quickly and Lupin's sideways glance spoke to me that there was other information that wasn't being shared at that time.  
 
Sirius said he was bored and that he wished it was a full moon, not that he was bored and wished James would go around hexing someone or Snape in particular.  To me that means that Sirius was craving adventure, not wanting to bully someone.  We know that Sirius has stated that Snape was always spying on them trying to get them in trouble or expelled - much the same way Draco did/does to Harry.  It may be that when James saw Snape he knew that Snape was again spying.  After all, it doesn't make sense to me that, if he was being victimized, Snape made sure to stay close enough to James to overhear his whole conversation while supposedly being totally absorbed in his exam.  Harry was between Snape and James and had to strain his ears to hear after the exam while Snape seems to have been able to hear which speaks of trying to hear through all the noise, not of being absorbed in the test paper.  Also, if Snape was such a victim, wouldn't he have made sure he didn't sit so close to James? 
 Again, I don't buy the deeply absorbed in the test paper explanation.
 
Was James a bully?  When Harry asks why Lily dated James, he was told that after James' head deflated a bit, he stopped hexing people just for fun.  Harry asked about Snape and the answer was that Snape was an exception as Snape never lost an opportunity to curse James and James couldn't take that lying down.  Who started it?  As James and Snape hated each other on sight, much the same way as Harry and Draco, a case could be made that Snape was as much of an aggressor as James if Snape is cast in the Draco role.  After all, how would people know that Snape was heavy into the Dark Arts and knew more hexes and curses than 7th year students unless he had done something to prove that? 
 
In the pensieve, Lily stated that James is as bad as Snape.  Obviously Snape has a bad reputation which is further enforced by the information that Snape was clearly unpopular.  And, while James washed Snape's mouth out with soap, after a bunch of cursing, Snape's retaliation drew blood.  It seems to me that Snape could take care of himself quite well and was well versed in how to hurt people.  Besides, I find it interesting that his first impluse upon hearing James speak to him was to go for his wand.  He wasn't scared or intimidated by James at all.
 
Now, a case could be made that Snape only remembers it that way because it is a salve to his ego.  However, if we accept that theory then we have to also admit that all the rest of the memory is just as colourfully tainted.  As an aside, this memory paints an interesting portrait of Wormtail as well.
 
 
Jen  wrote:

I'm left believing simple curiousity is primarily what led Snape to 
the Willow that night, along with hoping to get the Marauders in 
trouble as a delicious just dessert. The gauntlet was thrown by 
Sirius, and Snape couldn't leave it and walk away. And 20 years 
later his agenda hasn't changed remarkably, has it?

Lynn:
 
I disagree that it was simple curiousity.  I believe that it was the thought of getting something on the Marauders which he could use in the future which motivated Snape.  He had to have seen Madam Pomfrey take Lupin there so he must have known it was sanctioned by Dumbledore.  However, as it was under the cover of night, he had to realize that it was something Dumbledore was trying to keep hidden.  It would have given Snape power over the Marauders if he knew the secret.  After all, how much would they have sacrificed for Lupin?  It also fits in with the group Snape hung with - they all became Deatheaters.  They were after power.  That the power came with the added benefit of being able to humiliate your enemy could have made the temptation to know the secret too much to resist.
 
I can see the scenario where Sirius caught Snape spying on Lupin and Madam Pomfrey and throwing out the remark of how to get to the passageway on impulse due to his irritation at the spying.  I don't believe he intended to kill Snape.  If that was his intention, he wouldn't have told anyone what he did.  The fact that James had the time to get Snape out of harms way implies that Sirius encountered James soon after and still hadn't thought through the consequences of his actions. 
 
JMHO,
 
Lynn




		
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