What's the point of Hogwarts?

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 127668


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "sandra87b" <sandra87b at y...> wrote:
> 
> ...edited...
> 
> I was wondering what Harry etc are supposed to do when they 
> leave Hogwarts? I know some careers are mentioned, but 
> they're vague or general, and as far as I can tell, the curriculum 
> at Hogwarts doesn't cater for any genuine ones. 

bboyminn:

First, when it comes to jobs, I think it's important to look below the
surface. Once you do, you will see that there are many more jobs than
it first appears. 

For example, the wizard world has books, that means it also has
authors, publishers, paper makers, printers, and book binders, as well
as all the people necesary to support the warehousing and distribution
of books.

As another example, look at Fortescue's Ice Cream Shop and consider
all the support businesses he needs to set it up and keep it going. He
needs cups, bowls, spoon, store fixtures, table and chairs, fruit and
fruit toppings, as well as other flavors and toppings, and milk. That
means there has to be cabinet makers, silver smiths, furniture makers,
 makers of equipment to create a fully stocked kitchen, cold storage
cupboards and freezers, farmers, import/export, and the list goes on.

All these things are probably created and made to work by magic, but
none the less cabinets, furniture, and cold storage cupboards do need
to be created somehow. Further, the presents of this second tier of
support businesses implies a third tier to support them. If there are
cabinets makers and other craftsmen, then there must be lumberjacks
and sawmills to gather and process the wood.

> Sandra continues:
>
> ...edited...
> 
> In the muggle world that would mean they could set up a 
> phenomenally profitable manufacturing business where they 
> cast spells to turn rubbish into something valuable to flog to 
> muggles, or perhaps run highly efficient removal services by 
> levitating heavy objects to nearby dumps... but isn't that kind 
> of thing forbidden? 

bboyminn:

Keep in mind that you are not forbidden from doing these things you
suggest, you are only forbidden from getting caught by muggles.
Certainly a talented magical cabinet maker or other manufacturer could
turn raw material into finished product with ease using magic, and
nothing would really stop that person from selling the final products
in the muggle world. That assumes of course that the final product,
while created with magic, does not itself have any unnatural magical
powers or characteristics.

> Sandra continues:
>
> ...edited...
> 
> So my question is how do they make a living in the adult world, 
> bearing in my they've spent seven years at The Paul Daniels 
> Academy learning to do little more than entertain kids at parties. 
> I fail to see how JKR's generations of Hogwartians have anything 
> useful ...edited...
> 

bboyminn:

Why couldn't Dean and Seamus use Dean's artistic ability to start an
advertising business? We have seen the existance of several magazines
and newspapers, those periodicals need to make money therefore they
need advertising, therefore the world needs advertising agencies to
create the themes and adcopy. I envision Deam Thomas creating adcopy
that is similar to the cartoon/comicstrips we see in the Sunday paper.
Only instead of the short message/story playing out over several still
frames, his play out like short animations within a single frame on
the printed page. 

Neville could start an enchanted herb farm. All the herb, and rare and
uncommon ingredients for potions have to come from somewhere. Why not
from Neville? 

> Sandra continues:
>
> And would a University in the muggle world accept someone with a 
> string of "A Grades" in their OWLs etc? I think not, because 
> the cover would be blown on the wizard world if such 
> qualifications were ever presented to a board. So whatever 
> qualifications the kids get, their career options are somewaht 
> limited, surely?
> 

bboyminn:

Well, this is definitely a problem. I can see magical kids wanting to
go on in life and make their fortunes in the muggle world, and since
muggle's use technology rather than magic, they would probably need a
more formal muggle education. While it would be difficult for a muggle
to get into the university, I don't think it would be impossible. I
suspect if you could demonstrate a reasonable aptitude and proficiency
at English and basic Math, it might still be possible. 

Further, if you were a muggle-born like Hermione, and you knew in
advance you had an interest in pursuing a future in the muggle world,
there really wouldn't be anything to stop you from taking the G.C.S.E.
(O-Level, A-Level) exams, and getting the required qualifications. 

As long as we are on the subject of education after Hogwarts, we
already know that Auror training includes an additional three years of
specialized training (I think it was 3). Reasonably to become a wand
maker or Healer, you would go through a similar period of specialized
training. We could view these as similar to apprenticeship training.
One could even view Percy's job as personal assistant to various
Ministers and Department Heads as representing his apprenticeship into
the workings of the Ministry at the administrative level.


> Sandra continues:
>
> And while I'm being confused, do wizards/witches etc actually 
> live alongside muggles? 

bboyminn:

First, we know that Moody and the Black family live right in London.
The Black house is right next door to common muggle houses, although
admittedly hidden from view. Dedalus Diggle lives in Kent. The Malfoys
have a fine manor in Wiltshire. The Weasleys, Diggorys, and the
Fawcetts all live within (very long) walking distance of Ottery St.
Catchpole, which by all impressions is a muggle village. Further, Mrs.
Weasley has visited the post office in Ottery St. Catchpole to phone
for three taxis which then picked them up at the Burrow and took them
to London (probably cost a small fortune). Note that at a later date,
she also bought postage and mailed a letter presumably at this same
post office.

So, the answer is yes, aside from the residents of Hogsmead, magical
people do live among the muggles. But consider this, magic people
don't have to commute; they don't need automobiles, they don't need to
take public transportation. Indeed once the enter the front door, they
never have to leave their house again, at least not to the knowledge
of the neighbors. They can Floo or Apparate to where ever they need to
go. 

Consequently, there would never be any need or that many opportunities
to interact with the neighbors. Further, without going to the extremes
of the Black house, they could use minor enchantments, like an Apathy
Charm, to make there home so thoroughly dull, boring, and
uninteresting that the neighboring muggles, while being able to see
the 'magic' house, would generally ignore it. I suspect the Weasleys
have used some minor charm like this. There house can be found by the
muggle taxi drivers, but at the same time, is generally ignored by
most other people.

> Sandra continues:
>
> ... perhaps get to live in some huge parallel secret world which is 
> only accessible via hidden doorways and magical brick walls, why do
> they have to go to a real train station to get to the magical 
> station and catch the Hogwarts Express? Surely it would all be part 
> of the hidden  wizard world?
> 

bboyminn:

First, JKR has said that Hogsmead is the only ALL wizard village in
the UK, so in general, that somewhat eliminates other hidden /parallel
world/ neighborhoods and villages. But in my own little fantasy world
of Harry Potter, I suspect that other major cities have small hidden
areas like Diagon Alley. Perhaps not as big, more like a small secret
garden courtyard with a few small shops, including perhaps a pub and a
tea shop. 

Further in my own late night dillusions, I picture wizards moving into
very small muggle neighborhoods and gradually taking over. 'Birds of a
feather, flock together.' This is not that uncommon. Someone of a
particular ethinc background moves into a neighborhood, especially
into less desirable neighborhoods. Soon, the cousin moves in next door
to them, then their mother-in-law moves in down the block. Next thing
you know you've got Little Saigon or Chinatown. With this unique
ethnic group comes specialized businesses to support the available
customer base, which means Chinese restaurants and Chinese markets.
Which in turn means, if we are talking about wizards, a wizard safe
and friendly tea shop, a wizard safe and friendly cafe, a wizard
market and pub.

Since these were all previously muggle houses and shops, they can't be
hidden to the extent that the Black house or Diagon Alley are hidden.
I think the taxman might be a little suspicious if a whole
neighborhood that has been on the tax roles for centuries, suddenly
vanished from the face of the earth. But these minor enchantments I
mentioned would be enough to make muggles ignore the houses and shops.
For example, a muggle and magic tea shop could be right next door to
each other, but to muggles the magic tea shop would be so dull boring
and uninteresting, that no muggle would ever think of going in there.

In this vein, we also see the possiblity for another area of jobs. I
suspect many muggle-born or muggle-married magical people create a
niche of jobs helping wizards interact with the muggle world. Mr.
Weasley owns the land where his house is; a house, a long drive, pond,
paddock, orchards, woods, etc. He had to buy that land somehow. Since
the muggle taxis can find it, it's clearly not magical enchanted land.
I suspect there are Solicitors (lawyers) and Real Estate Agents who
help wizard deal with things like this.

Further, I have always speculated that there is a special type of
Import/Export business that helps deal with importing and exporting
between the magical and muggle world. Mr. Fortescue needs strawberries
for his ice cream. While there could be magical strawberry farmers,
it's entirely possible that a wizard may have married a muggle who
took over her father's produce market. Now while she still services
the local neighborhood with fresh produce, out the backdoor, she
funnels strawberrys into Fortescue's shop. 

Of course, anything traveling from the magical world into the muggle
world while created with magic, in order to be legal, can't have any
actual magical properties of its own.


> Sandra concludes:
>
> I wish JKR would make her 'thinking' a bit clearer at times. Or 
> maybe it's just me having one of those 'what problem?'moments far 
> too early in the morning? Any great revelations would be 
> gratefully received, I think!
> 
> Sandra 

bboyminn:

>From my perspective, when I encounter inconsistencies in the story,
rather than dwell on the inconsistency, I find it much more fun to
assume that it is in fact correct, and then speculate on the possible
explanations as to why it is correct. 

In otherword, in the face of doubt, I make it up; a very enjoyable
pursuit.

Steve/bboyminn