Nel Question # 6. Peter Pettigrew

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 128012


Phoenixgod2000 wrote: 
based on the way I read PoA, I think Peter was captured, tortured 
and broken by Voldemort. Someone with as weak an ego as Peter 
wouldn't last too long under someone who could pick through your 
brain, use crucio, and who knows what else. 
 
Potioncat:
What exactly in PoA makes you think that? If Peter was "the" spy, he 
was working for quite some time. If it was torture or threats that 
made him betray his friends, why didn't he tell someone at the time? 
Or why didn't he go to DD afterwards? 
I could buy Imperius as a reason, except again, I would have 
expected him to talk to DD during his many years at Hogwarts.

Alla:

I am afraid I agree with Potioncat. I mean not that the torture is 
not a possibility, it sure is, IMO, because too many gaps are not 
filled yet.
Nevertheless, so far in the text I see no proof to that. Wouldn't 
you think that Peter would try to justify his wrongdoings to Sirius 
and Remus by very different words than what he actually used?

Peter does not say - he( Voldemort) made me do it, etc,etc, etc....

He says instead:

"He - he was taking over everywhere!" gasped Pettigrew. "Wh- what 
was there to be gained by refusing him?" - PoA, p.374, paperback.

I read this quote as Peter having time to figure out that joining 
Voldemort will be to his gain, not simply joining him under extreme 
duress. I mean it is a possibility that Voldemort could have 
threatened with torture, I guess, since  the next thing that Peter 
says is :

"You don't understand! whined Pettigrew. "He would have killed me, 
Sirius!" - p.375.

Still, I get the impression (which could easily be wrong) that Peter 
joined willingly.



Alla earlier:

In your opinion, did he owe to his friends to be "more than merely 
good" or not? 

Phoenixgod:
Yes, because he shouldn't have been in the order if he wasn't able 
to be 'more than merely good'.
>
 
Potioncat:
I agree with this. Even within the framework of membership of the 
Order, there is "what is expected" and "above and beyond" It appears 
that Peter fell very far short of the expectations.

And although I snipped Alla's very nice quote about persecution, 
keep in mind that JKR values courage above everything. She would 
expect someone to owe his friends  more than being merely good.


Alla:

Oh, I agree that Peter owed his loyalty to Potters and others as 
fellow members of the resistance, no question in my mind. What I was 
getting at, I guess, was more personal level of loyalty? In 
particular, the dismissive attitude of James and Sirius in the 
pensieve scene.

As I said many times, I have many problems with Pensieve scene ( 
subjectivity, incomplete, etc.) Nevertheless let's suppose that 
James and Sirius always treated Peter that way ( no, I don't realy 
believe it, but let's play a hypothetical). To make a long story 
short let's suppose that James and Sirius simply were not very good 
friends with Peter and just simply took him under their wing, 
because they wanted his admiration. Let's also suppose that Peter 
was not a member of the Order, but simply their friend. Do you think 
that under such circumstances Peter owed them his loyalty? I know, 
it is getting too speculative, but I am still wondering.

   
 
Alla asks: 
Is that really all that there is to Peter? Is that the only reason 
he befriended James, Sirius and Remus?  Is that why he joined 
Voldemort?


Potioncat:
<SNIP>
Who else did Peter have? Was he part of the group 
because there was no other choice? 
And if he was the type to shadow a "protector" if you will, was the 
friendship surviving adulthood? If he continued to be something like 
the younger Peter, was there anything in common with the other 3?
I could see LV having a slow subtle influence on Peter, convincing 
him perhaps that the Marauders weren't really his friends. By LV, I 
mean of course, a person of LV's choosing.  


Alla:

Very good point. I  really want to know when Voldemort started 
recruiting, really. :) I also want to know who was that person who 
approached Peter. Malfoy again? 



Alla, 
who thinks that attempting to feel some kind of sympathy 
towards Peter was the hardest "book related" exercise of her
 senses she ever did. :-)  


Phoenixgod: 
see, I actually have more sympathy for Peter than I do for, say, 
Snape or Draco, because of my (somewhat supported) fanwank that 
Peter was broken by Voldemort and twisted into becoming a death 
eater.


Alla:

Oh, please don't get me wrong. IF we will learn that Peter was 
tortured and /or he joined under threat of violence to his family, 
he will definitely become more sympathetic character for me. Since 
we don't know for sure, it is VERY hard for me to sympathize with 
the character who directly contributed to making Harry and orphan. 

I was very surprised by you mentioning Draco here. Had I ever even 
hinted at sympathising  with him? :-)



Just my opinion of course,

Alla