Killing Harry, Defeating Voldemort , Percy Weasley

[AyanEva]

No: HPFGUIDX 128051


> Geoff wrote:
> Strangely, I have never equated Frodo's journey to Valinor with 
> death. The elves are immortal and have the gift of being able to 
> sail to the Undying Lands when they become weary of Middle-Earth 
> and that gift was passed to Frodo by Arwen.


AyanEva:
   
  See, I always assumed that only the elves could actually live
forever and while Frodo (and later Sam) could stave off death for
awhile, they'd eventually have to die since men are inherently 
mortal. I think what I meant to say when I stated that Frodo 
"died," is that by leaving for Arda he's passing from our world 
and is now "dead" to this world. I know I'm making this awfully abstract, but it's fun to think about none the less! It kind of 
goes along with the idea that there are several different ways 
to "die" or "live." 

So, just as some have mentioned that Harry might not actually kill 
Voldie in the sense that Voldie is "dead" dead. The same could be 
true of Harry in terms of his survival: He might be living but not 
alive, while Voldie really is quite dead. I only mention this 
because, again, I can't see how Harry can come out of this alive 
and OK. So, it makes more sense to me that if he's going to survive 
this, it's going to be in some way that's not the common definition 
of "live." I think I've just gone and confused myself...I hope I've 
made my point mostly clear; I'm not sure I can work that out a 
second time!


Geoff:
> I don't think that Frodo came back "screwed up"; he came back 
> weary but seemed to spend quite a lot of time with friends and 
> quietly enjoying Shire life. It was the wearisome reminders of 
> the hurts he had suffered at Amon Sul and again with Shelob at 
> Cirith Ungol that made him physically decide to go to a place of 
> complete healing and peace. He was also to spend nearly two years 
> in the Shire after their return before he took this decision. I 
> think a sadder ending would have been if Frodo had fallen into 
> the Sammath Naur with Gollum and not been able to see something
> of the fruits of victory. I would like this to be true of Harry.

AyanEva:

I always got the sense that Frodo wasn't actually enjoying his 
time in the Shire afterwards, although I'll admit that for some inexplicable reason, I stopped about 60 pages from the end of 
"The Return of the King" a few years ago and have yet to actually finish the book. But, going by the information from the website, 
"The Encyclopedia of Arda" ( http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ ), it doesn't seem like Frodo was having a very good time of it at all. 
And I know I shouldn't reference the movie since it's not an exact 
source, but I remember Frodo saying how you go back after a great 
trial and you want things to be the same, but they just aren't. In 
my mind, the burden of the memories of all of the events that took 
place pretty much constitute "screwed up."

And Harry being just a teenager and all would deal with the whole
"only you can defeat this bad guy, now hop to it" worse than Frodo, 
as an adult, dealt with it. I totally see Harry out of his mind or
something in a mental institution. After all, he wasn't doing so hot
emotionally when ol' Voldie possesed him in Book 5. What's he going 
to be like when things really get going? 

I'm pretty pessimistic by nature and I can only see him being a bit
shattered by it all. Book 5 has me really worried about Harry's
ability to get the job done in an efficient manner; he really 
bungled the Sirius thing and had me screaming "Go get Snape! Go 
tell Snape! *screams in frustration, rends clothing* WHY DIDN'T HE GET PROFESSOR SNAPE!!! Harry, you're a total dolt!" You just knew 
it was going to turn out badly. The neighbors probably wondered 
what in the world I was doing, what with all of the yelling. But 
I'm willing to give Harry some leniency for not thinking straight since he was so concerned for Sirius.

As for the alternate ending with Harry not seeing the fruits of his
labor, I actually find that ending to be the most satisfying because
it would be more realistic than "and he married Ginny, had 7 kids, 
and lived happily ever after working as an Auror!" However, there's still the problem of Harry being "dead" dead in that scenario. And I'd be sobbing like a little kid and depressed for the next few months.


Geoff:
> The interesting parallel which occurs to me could be that it was 
> Frodo's "right hand man", Sam, who came more into prominence once 
> the ring was gone. I wonder what the future might hold for the 
> youngest male Weasley?

AyanEva:

Exactly! It was kind of Sam that saved the day. In my post of 
things that I liked/disliked about HP (
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/128008 ) I
mentioned really liking Ron, in part, because he reminds me of the
role that Sam played. You don't really expect much out of Sam or 
Ron, but then they rise to the occassion.


AyanEva
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From: Subhash Sane <crownless_aragorn at ...>
Subject: Two ways of Defeating Voldemort 	

Subhash:

> At the end of Order Of The Phoenix, we saw Sirius disappearing 
> behind the veil and he did not come back. This is one of the 
> way by which Voldemort can be killed. If Harry manages to send 
> Voldemort behind that veil, even Voldemort can't come back. Even 
> the protection given by the experiment in the past won't save 
> him from the death. Perhaps, Harry is the only person who can 
> come back from that veil. So, this is one of the ways of 
> defeating Voldemort.

AyanEva:

But if the veil is equated with death, I don't see how the veil 
could kill Voldemort. I still think that Voldie's not going to die 
in the traditional sense of the word, unless the "I have Harry's blood now" thing makes him just mortal enough to kill him, in 
which case the veil could kill him. Maybe the Harry's blood, being pure of heart or some other cliched quality, diluted Voldie's protections against death?


Subhash in post 128003:
> Though Percy was in Gryffindor, he was more Slytherinish. He 
> hated his father for not giving up THAT ATTITUDE.

AyanEva:

Great theory about Percy Weasley, I never thought of set-up route. 
My only general question just to throw out there is this:

Why was Percy placed in Gryffindor in the first place? Did the 
Sorting Hat run into a similar situation as with Harry? Do we know what Percy was like as a child, as a first or second year student? Was there a defining moment or event that made him the jerk that he is today? Or did he just not deal as well as his brothers with the teasing. I do wonder if Percy's attitude is hiding the fact that 
he's a really sensative person. After all, if he gets to the top, there's no one that can really hurt him, right?


AyanEva- who doesn't know why she feels compelled to post so much.
It's HP withdrawal, I suppose.