[HPforGrownups] Hermione and Snape. Was: Re: Accio 2005 press releaseTrial of Snape

[Laura Ingalls Huntley]

No: HPFGUIDX 128263

Irene:
> That wasn't quite what I meant. In the  context of a real-life school,
> where somebody like Hermione would be discouraged by her peers from
> demonstrating any commitment, strict teacher is much better than a
> "nice" but ineffectual one.

Er, well.  I suppose I agree with you on principle, but I think that 
principle is sort of blown to bits when the *teacher* in question is 
actually discouraging a student from demonstrating any commitment.  
Arguably, Hermione doesn't *need* encouragement to study, but I don't 
think you can argue that Snape provides an environment that is anything 
but hostile towards Hermione's commitment to her studies.  Heck, he 
makes fun of her for being a "know-it-all".  If the teasing of other 
kids is bad enough to discourage certain students from academic 
excellence, imagine what the taunts of a teacher must do!

Irene:
> If that strict teacher happens to be fair
> (McGonagall), that's excellent, but even if he's not, it's still better
> than the other choice.

I'd say that depends on the extent of his or her unfairness and also 
the individual temperament of the student in question.  Plenty of 
students can do quite well with nice, ineffective teachers (Hagrid, for 
instance) if they have the proper resources (textbooks, for example).  
I think in either case there is a fault in the teacher that the student 
needs to overcome (hostility in the classroom *will* cripple many 
children), and how well they do is a function of their personalities.

Irene:
> Oh, I need Shaun to come to my rescue, he always explains it so much
> better than I do.

Drat, no.  Let him stay away, he's too knowledgeable about all this 
stuff.  ^_~  Anyway, I've never really felt that his arguments apply to 
Hermione.  I believe (emphasis on *believe* -- sorry if I've got it all 
wrong) that the gist of what he says about Snape is that a percentage 
of kids will do well with a teacher that is hard on them and tells them 
they will never be any good, because they can and will rise to the 
challenge.  Now, with Hermione and Snape, I don't get the impression 
Snape is ever nasty to her for not doing well or not trying hard enough 
-- on the contrary, I think he's nasty to her for trying *too* hard.  
While you may *agree* with him on this count (Ron certainly does), I 
*don't* think it makes him effective in encouraging Hermione to work 
harder (as if she could!).

Irene:
> No, he could not care less about the little brats' benefit. :-) It's
> just that if in the class of 30 little brats happens to be one or two
> capable students, the rest of the brats have to be scared into not
> interfering with them.

*So* not his job to be picking out the "capable" ones (nevermind that 
Hermione is certainly capable and Harry and Neville probably are too) 
and to hell with the rest.  He's a school teacher, it's his job to 
teach *all* the students.  And I really, really don't buy the argument 
that Snape is nasty for the benefit of *anyone* but himself.  If 
anything, I think he is probably jealous of Hermione's aptitude and 
tries to squash it or ignore it if he can.

Irene:
> That's a quote from a secondary school pupil during recent  BBC
> discussion on education:
> " All the other students mistreat the teacher and prevent me and my
> friends from working adequately."

I *get* that, trust me.  I *was* that kid. ^_^

Irene:
> His teacher seems to be more like Binns than McGonagall, don't you 
> think?
> I think somebody like Snape would be quite high on his list of 
> alternatives.

I really don't think any good, homework-doing, conscientious, 
hard-working kid would ever *choose* to have Snape as a teacher.  
Honestly, after being a "good kid" for so long, I don't think he would 
know what do to about a teacher who was mean to him for no apparent 
reason.  Honestly, it a kid like that who will be more affected by 
Snape-like treatment than any of the kids he was complaining about.

Also, I wouldn't call his current teacher Binns-like at all.  I'm not 
sure there is a Potterverse equivalent to what he is describing, but it 
seems like his teacher is perfectly competent, just too timid.

Alla:
>> They
>> will understand it when they are older, right? :-)

Irene:
> Yes, some of them. :-)

I guess I would expect the really smart ones among them to grudgingly 
appreciate it at the time, if it had any value at all.

Alla:
>> And the gist of mine is that for the little brats benefit Snape
>> should not be allowed anywhere near them. :-)

Irene:
> Well, his record in exam results and accidents statistics seems to be
> against this conclusion. IMHO, of course. :-)

I'm sorry, technical question:  what do we know about his accidents 
statistics compared to the other potions teachers?

Laura