Accio 2005 press release: new Guest Speaker andTrial of Snape

[quigonginger]

No: HPFGUIDX 128308

> Alla:
> 
> As to punishing him under WW laws... Well, maybe, if we knew ENOUGH 
> of WW laws. Maybe sometimes after all said and done JKR decides to 
> publish some useful additions as to how WW operates in many areas.
> 
> I see no problem in trying Snape under "muggle" laws. I am well 
> aware that many do not share this POV, but nevertheless I will say 
> it again - I see nothing horrible in comparing WW with RL. JKR is 
> not "wizard" in disguise after all, right? ;-)

Ginger:  She's not!?!  (just kidding)
You are right that there are comparisons to be made.  If there 
weren't, JKR would have to take a lot of time explaining things to 
us.  As it is, she uses our familiarity with our own world to make 
hers work.

Comparisons I can see.  Judgements are another story.  More on that 
later....

Alla continued:
> She is a "muggle"  writer,who models many things in WW after "real 
> world", IMO and IMO only. I do NOT think that WW morals and laws 
are 
> THAT different from ours,or if they are, in my opinion and in my 
> opinion only they will radically change at the end.
> 
> JKR is also not writing about aliens. She is writing about people, 
> who just happen to be wizards, many of whom come to WW from "real" 
> world,as described by her.
> 
> So, I think it is perfectly fine for dear Severus to stand trial 
> under muggle laws.

Ginger:
I quite agree that she is writing about humans, but humans differ in 
customs and traditions.  I definately see where you are coming from: 
the WW she is writing about is as British as the RW she writes 
about.  

But they are also very different.  We see it in characters like 
Hermione and her SPEW efforts.  

The SPEW efforts show a great gap in WW and RW thinking.  I am one of 
those who is withholding judgement on the HouseElf situation until we 
know more about them.  In RL, I would think the slavery abhorrent.  
With the elves, I am waiting to see what *they* want.  I think this 
gap shows best that there is a huge difference between RW and WW 
thinking.


Alla again: 
> As to political correctness, I am not sure if you include me into 
> that vocal group. :-) If you do, well, the only thing I can say in 
> my defense that I did not grew up in America ( although I am an 
> american citizen now), I did all my schooling, except law school 
> outside America . So, not only americans can think that RL person 
> like Snape should not be allowed to approach children.
> 
> So, I freely admit in "forcing" my real life thought on WW ( I 
> explained my rationale above to the best of my ability), but I will 
> vehemently deny forcing "american thought " upon WW. :-)


Ginger:  
I hope you didn't take my comment to mean you in particular.  It 
wasn't aimed at anyone.  Just more of an observation.  Like saying 
there's quite a bit of garlic in the sauce.  Noting it's there, but 
not searching out every bit of it.

As for you personally, I think you are one of the most concientious 
people on the list when it comes to specifying that your opinions are 
your own and not forcing them on others.  I do not always agree with 
you, but I enjoy your posts, and that is one of the reasons.  That 
and the fact that you write well.

Forcing "RL thought on the WW" is interesting.  It goes back to what 
I said earlier about judgements.  (I warned you there was more to 
come;o)  I see judging the WW by RW standards like judging another 
culture by one's own.  

Pardon my memory, but I remember you saying you are in the US now, 
but originally from ???? I can't remember.  Sorry about that.  

I guess I would see judging the WW by RW standards like judging the 
US by the standards of your original country, or vice versa.  

I work with a lot of people from a variety of countries.  I learned 
quickly not to make assumptions.  I believe we are more alike than 
different, but the differences are there.  And that's not bad, as 
long as the differences are acceptable.  If I'm supposed to be 
training someone, and he won't listen because I am female, it doesn't 
fly.  There are safety concerns to consider.  I'd rather report him 
than have him lose his hand in a machine.  He is now in my culture, 
not his old one.  He is the one who has to adjust.  On the other 
hand, if someone needs to stop work to pray at a certain time, I'll 
wait for him before we continue.  

I see judging Snape by RW standards like going to the country of 
origin of the man who won't listen to me and forcing men to listen to 
women.  It isn't their way, and we are the outsiders there.  Snape is 
an outsider to our world and our way of thinking.  If he were to 
teach in the RW, we would be expected to judge him by our standards.  
I think he would expect it too. 

Where do we as readers draw the line?  I guess that varies from 
person to person.  I certainly have no problem with a person not 
liking Snape because of the way he behaves.  I understand it 
totally.  He's not a nice guy at all.  (I hope that wasn't a spoiler 
for anyone;o)

We do place judgements on characters.  It's part of the reading 
process.  It's how we get involved in the story line.  I'm not 
conerned with people saying "I hate Snape because..."  I just wonder 
why some people (and I'm not saying you, Alla) think he *must* change 
or that JKR "shouldn't" write him as a mean person.  To me it's part 
of the story.  It's the taking him out of his environment and putting 
him in ours that I don't understand.  Apples to oranges, and all that.

I'm another one who had a Snape-like teacher in school.  He tested 
25% on the book, 25% on class lecture, and 50% on stuff not presented 
to us at all.  Very rarely did anyone score over 50% on a test.  If 
they did, he put them in the front row, and thunked them over the 
head with rolled up test papers each time they failed to do it again.

In the end, he only actually graded on the 50% we had covered, but 
his point was that there was lots more to the subject than what we 
would learn in school, and that if we wanted to be truely 
knowlegdeable, we had to hit the library on our own.  He is 
remembered fondly by almost everyone who he taught.

This is getting very long, so I'll end here.  Thanks to anyone who 
made it this far.

Ginger, who was a very Snape-like Sunday School teacher at one time, 
and it went well.