Why Lily, Not James? + prophecy-translation (WAS: Re: Why James, Not Lily?)

[nobodysrib]

No: HPFGUIDX 135832


> Geoff wrote: 
I am, just as lots of others very curious why Lily did not have to die
(and James did, apparently) but I'm sure the reason for it was one
that was beneficial in one way or another for LV himself. 

> Rachael now:
> So I guess what we really need to think about is: what did Voldemort 
> think he would gain by killing James, but wouldn't gain by killing 
> Lily?  Or what did he think he would he lose by killing Lily, but 
> wouldn't lose by killing James?

My turn:
We've been led to believe there is a large secret regarding Lily
 and
we wonder why Voldemort would give Lily the chance to step aside
before killing her
 and then there's that unknown horcrux


[And, I recall a JKR interview in which she overtly discusses Harry
having Lily's eyes, and she laughs that she is giving away far too
much.  (I've been searching for the exact text; no luck thus far. 
Anyone remember where it is?)]

This gets my thoughts a-tumbling in a myriad directions.  Could Lily
be a GG descendent, thus a worthy candidate for LV to turn into a
horcrux?  Horcrux!Lily??  Could this explain why he gives Lily the
option to live -- to preserve one of his horcruxes?  Yet, when she
does not step aside, he weighs his options. (`Tis better to kill the
Prophecy Boy and lose one or many horcruxes than to lose this
opportunity to kill Harry.)  

No one else has made more than one horcrux, so perhaps the inner
workings of horcruxes are not well known.  Plus, we already know that
Lily's motherly love saved Harry's life -- a repercussion Voldemort
did not foresee.  So, perhaps


Lily knows she's a horcrux and figures out a way to transfer this to
Harry; Lily's dying to save Harry transfers part of the horcrux to
Harry (via Old Magic, not via a witch or wizard`s spell); or
Voldemort`s creating-a-horcrux spell was cast on Lily but the words
used specified a GG descendent (thus easing the Lily-to-Harry
transfer, or perhaps *causing* it when Harry was born and another GG
descendent was created).  The literal transference: eyes.  Regardless
of scenario, Lily's eyes, part of the horcrux, are transferred to
Harry.  And now Harry literally has his mothers' eyes.  

I like this possibility, partially because of the problem it could
create for Voldemort.  If all his horcruxes (except Harry) are
destroyed, then what would happen to him if he killed Harry -- and
also destroyed the last remaining horcrux?  

(I don't mean to infer that Voldemort -- or anyone -- knows Lily/Harry
are the GG horcrux.  Not as of HBP, that is.)

But what if Lily did know?  How might she have learned it?  We don't
know how the horcrux is produced; perhaps Lily didn't either.  Could a
clue lie in the Potters having escaped Voldemort three times?  First
time: Voldemort learns Lily is a GG descendent.  Second: snares them
with a trap, performs the spell.  Third time: the Potters discover
Lily's a horcrux.  

Problem:  Why didn't Dumbledore know?  Why doesn't anyone (living --
that we're aware of
) know?  Well, we have evidence that the Potters
didn't have the best judgment of whom to trust with secrets (ahem,
secret-keeper Pettigrew) -- could they have feared the Order might
sacrifice horcrux!Lily?  (OR, if R.A.B. had a helper in the
locket-cave, could the helper try to track down Harry, giving him
another foe to fight in book 7?)

I'm going to step a bit away from meta-conjecture and turn to the
prophecy.  "The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord
approaches
 born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the
seventh month dies
 and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but
he will have power the Dark Lord knows not
 and either must die at the
hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives
 the
one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the
seventh month dies
"  
I've always had a problem with the wording of this prophecy, and I
don't think JKR chooses these words hastily.  I could be reading this
wrong, but does it not say that Harry and Voldemort cannot be alive at
the same time?  Does that mean that Voldemort is not alive-alive, but
horcrux-alive?  Is that not why he didn't die when his curse bounced
off Harry and back at him?  If all the horcruxes are destroyed, what
becomes of Voldemort?  

And, IF Harry's eyes are the final Horcrux and Voldemort destroys
Harry's eyes, could that kill Voldemort -- or leave him in a state
possible for a blinded Harry to kill Voldemort?  (Thus the villain is
ultimately responsible for his own demise.)

[Wouldn't it be great if Pettigrew somehow figures out or overhears --
perhaps at Spinners End -- about Lily!horcrux and passes the info to
Harry?  Would that redeeming factor legitimize his house placement?]

A final side note about the prophecy: is it just me, or does anyone
else see the possibility for three people being mentioned in the
prophecy?  (1) Dark Lord, (2) a July-born boy with parents thrice
defying aforementioned Dark Lord who has a secret power, (3) a
July-born boy with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord.  The prophecy
has been translated as Harry and Voldemort fighting, and one killing
the other; however, I offer the possibility that the word "must" may
be crucial.  What if neither can *live* while the other survives,
therefore the `prophecy' [or the human transport of the prophecy
translating assumptions (obviously not in the full consciousness of
the seer); some prophecy thing we don't understand -- where do
prophecies come from anyway?  The seer is just a medium
] assumes one
must kill the other but does not overtly state that one WILL kill the
other?  Q: But if one of them is not *alive* (ahem, Voldemort), then
how can he be killed?  A: He can't die at another's hand, but he can
be vanquished
 and the one with the power to vanquish him was ALSO
born at the end of July. Enter, Neville.

Phew.  I know this is a pile of what-ifs upon what-ifs.  Tear it
apart, or add to it.  Or perhaps (a word I've used all too often
here), these ideas may spark some more likely hypotheses.


-- Nobody's Rib (who really wants the plural of `horcrux' to be
'horcrix', or  `horcrex')