Re: Dumbledore’s flawed plan

[kiricat4001]

No: HPFGUIDX 135894


> eggplant107 wrote:
 
> > But a pointless sacrifice was not in character and Dumbledore's 
death
> > accomplished nothing, in fact it was a disaster because now the 
most
> > powerful weapon the good guys had (with the possible exception of
> > Harry) is gone. If Dumbledore did have some secret grand master 
plan
> > cooked up with Snape I think it is very safe to say that things 
did
> > not go as expected. 
<snip> 
> > I also do not think letting Harry watch as Snape killed 
Dumbledore
> > without telling Harry it was what Dumbledore wanted could have
> > possibly been part of the plan. In book 5 Dumbledore blundered 
in not
> > telling Harry earlier about the prophecy and a good man died as a
> > result, I don't believe he would make the same mistake and keep 
Harry
> > in the dark again. He must have known if he saw his Headmaster
> > murdered Harry would spend the rest of his life if need be to 
hunt
> > down and kill the murderer, he might even make getting Snape a 
greater
> > priority than killing Voldemort.  It seems to me it would have 
been
> > prudent to say to Harry "Oh by the way, Professor Snape is going 
to
> > kill me with an unforgivable curse but don't worry, I asked him 
to do
> > it". Dumbledore told Harry nothing of the sort so we can 
conclude that
> > Snape's actions were not part of the plan and thus Snape is just 
what
> > he seems to be, evil.

Marianne now:

LOL! I would have loved to hear DD say that and see Harry's stunned 
reaction!  Much as I would like to firmly believe in ESE!Snape, I 
can't commit to it right now, since I've never liked Snape.  I'm 
trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, and not let my dislike 
color my view.  As far as DD not making the same mistake twice, we 
are pointedly shown DD not giving Harry any more information about 
why he trusts Snape, other than the not-quite-believable "he was 
remorseful..." I'm sure DD deliberatly held back some information 
because, well, I don't know why. To protect Harry? To protect 
someone else?  Who knows?  But, I can see where he might not want to 
bluntly tell Harry that Snape might have to kill him and not to 
worry about it.
     
> 
>    Kathy writes:
>        While I am quite certain that Dumbledore did not plan his 
own 
> death, I am equally certain that he was aware of the possibility 
of it. 
> He would have covered all possible bases. 

<snip>

>        If the potion had killed him, it would have been a truly 
> pointless death, which is why he wanted Snape brought to him 
> immediately. If Draco killed him, it would also have done nothing 
to 
> imptove the situation for the Order. Only by having Snape kill him 
could 
> he place an Order member right beside Voldemort.

Marianne:
I suppose, but wouldn't he have thought it through to the point that 
he tells some senior Order member that this might happen?  Now the 
only evidence the Order has is DD's death by Snape's AK, along with 
Harry's interpretation of what DD told Harry about why Snape is to 
be trusted. And, as we saw, it did not seem to strike McGonagall, 
Lupin, etc. as particularly believable.  So, Snape, if he is indeed 
still on the side of the angels, is cut off from his fellow angels 
because they think he's a murdering turncoat. Snape will have to do 
some fancy footwork to make anyone in the Order believe him.

Kathy:
>        Yes, he made the same mistake that he made last time in not 
> telling Harry the whole story, but he really can't do that. The 
only 
> reason that Voldemort is not in Harry's mind is because he is 
hiding 
> from Harry what he is doing. He still has access to Harry's mind 
if he 
> chooses to access it. Dumbledore has to be deliberately vague in 
what he 
> tells Harry about Snape in spite of the fact that it is going to 
cause 
> problems in the end.

Marianne:
I have a problem with the idea that DD can't tell Harry everything 
because Vmort might decide to stroll through Harry's mind at any 
time and see what's going on.  DD seems to think that the hunt for 
the Horcruxes is absolutely crucial, and that Harry should say 
nothing about it to anyone, except his friends. Yet, all this 
accumulated information about them, including the Pensieve memories 
and the destruction of two of the Horcruxes, is sitting there in 
Harry's mind, ripe for discovery by Vmort.  Surely DD didn't want 
Vmort to know that they were actively engaged in hunting down the 
various pieces of his soul.  If there is that much concern for 
secrecy to cover Snape's butt, there should be even more secrecy to 
cover the quest to destroy Vmort's soul pieces to make him more 
vulnerable.  

The ultimate goal is still to defeat Voldemort, not to protect 
Snape. 

Marianne