Snape: the Riddle... (LONG)

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 135914

Sigune:
 If Voldemort really 
> feels he can rely on Snape, would he send Peter Pettigrew, the Rat 
> Who Listens At Doors, to Spinner's End? Snape may well say
> Wormtail 
> is there to assist him; the truth is that he is being watched in 
his 
> own house.

Potioncat:
My first reaction was, which one is being punished? It can't be 
enjoyable for either one; even if Snape does appear to have the upper 
hand.  


Sigune:
 
> Unbreakable Vow?
> 
> The Unbreakable Vow is the kind of narrative device that alerts the 
> reader of fairy tales to impending doom. Remember Beauty and the 
> Beast, Rumpelstiltkin and many other stories...

Potioncat:
I find this to be an interesting point. Before the book came out, the 
name "Spinner's End" brought to mind all the magic stories aobut 
spinning; Rumpelstitkin and Sleeping Beauty among them. Aunt Nancy 
came to mind too, but that is an African-American tale. (Aunt Nancy 
is Ananzi the spider.)

And I wonder if it has anything to do with Eileen and Tobias as well, 
as a parallel back story.

Sigune:
> I have to admit that it is perhaps a bit unfair calling Snape
> naïve. 
> I don't think he is. It is just that he has allowed himself to be 
> seduced by the admittedly formidable combined forces of the Black 
> sisters, which wouldn't have worked with *me* - I'm
> impervious to 
> female charm :o).

Potioncat:
Although I now believe Narcissa was playing Snape, when I first read 
it I thought Snape was also playing Narcissa. But, inspite of what 
many readers may privately imagine; Narcissa would much more skilled 
at this sort of playing than Snape would. She would have had much 
more practice at it. You've made a very good point, Snape likely lost 
control in this situation.


Sigune: 
> When she slips in her third clause it is too late for Snape to do 
> anything else than twitch and endure. He is forced to condemn 
himself 
> three times.

Potioncat:
Yeah, sure looks that way. This bad boy fell for the bad girl. But 
Snape, unlike most wizards, has a strong logical streak. He was 
treating this Unbreakable Vow like a logic puzzle. I suspect he'd 
used Legilimency to get an idea of what Narcissa was up to. It 
appears she may be more skilled at Occlumency than he ever imagined. 
Even months later, he thinks it is Bellatrix who is teaching Draco.

For someone used to risking his life all the time, playing with such 
a dangerous puzzle wouldn't be too out of the ordinary. And even the 
third clause has some fudge room. He was broadsided (no pun intended) 
by the third condition, but he thought he could work around it. 



>Sigune: 
> Part the Second: Black Wizard, White Wizard – or,
> Dumbledore's Fatal 
> Mistake
> ____________________________________________________________________

 
> He is ashamed of having been tricked like a novice. He has made an 
> elementary mistake; and where in canon have we ever caught Snape 
> admitting a mistake? Dumbledore, yes. Sirius, yes. Remus, yes. 
Snape? 
> No way. He makes errors and he is aware of them, but he does not 
> admit them. He tries to solve his problems on his own, in silence. 

Potioncat:
This is another point that I didn't think of, but which fits the 
Snape we know. There is certainly canon backup that indicates that 
Snape often goes off on his own. DD never seemed to be part of the 
Snape/Quirrell battle. 

Sigune:
 If Dumbledore knew the full terms of 
> the Vow, would he ask the impossible of Snape? I don't think he
> has 
> any idea about the extent to which Snape is bound.
> snip

 Snape's mind is destined
> for 
> greatness, but the rest of him isn't, and Dumbledore is
> constantly 
> demanding everything, kindly for starters, and firmly if kindness 
> does not yield the desired result. 
snip 
 I do not believe in some pre-arranged plan to stage, 
> or otherwise effect, Dumbledore's death, if only because I cannot
> see 
> what the use of that would be.

Potioncat:
Well, I thought perhaps the two had discussed the entire Vow, and 
worked out some different scenarios. But you make some very strong 
points. The one place I might quibble, is whether DD knows. He could 
well know even if Snape hadn't told him. It's always hard to 
determine what DD knows.

Now, let's say Snape never told him, but DD picked it up through 
Legilimency. For that matter, DD knows Narcissa; knows Snape; and 
probably knows something about Unbreakable Vows. What would DD do? He 
would know that if the situation with Draco came to some sort of 
head, Snape would be conflicted. DD would no more want to be murdered 
by Snape than by Draco, but he would not want either of them to die 
either.

I think Snape was hoping to buy enough time to avoid the situation at 
all, and DD had some plans of his own. He never approached Draco, 
because he didn't want LV to know that DD knew. DD didn't want Snape 
to know either.


 Sigune:
> The implications of my assumptions suggest this scenario for the 
> fateful night:
> 
> Dumbledore goes Horcrux-hunting with Harry, fully expecting to 
incur 
> damage just like the first time with the ring; but he counts on 
being 
> healed in time by his Dark Arts expert, who also saved him the 
first 
> time. He will send Harry for Snape when he arrives back at Hogwarts.

Potioncat:
I think DD put Snape into some sort of trance or put him to sleep. DD 
knows where Snape is and that he's asleep, although other Order 
Members are partrolling the halls. For Snape to be asleep at this 
time seems very out of character.

Oops, I snipped too much. I also think DD was planning to return to 
the castle where Snape would be able to treat his injuries. The Dark 
Mark and DEs were a surprise.

Sigune:
 Snape does some quick thinking and sees that there 
> are two options. 
> 
> 1) He openly declares his allegiance to Dumbledore. > 
> Result: the Order is one leader and one spy short and a young life 
is 
> destroyed in a pointless battle. 
> 
> 2) He kills Dumbledore.  
> Result: By sacrificing the already lost life of a dying 150-year-
old 
> wizard, he saves a sixteen-year-old (buying him time to think 
things 
> over), himself, and safeguards one of the Order's most significant 
> pawns in the coming confrontation with the Dark Lord. Drawback is 
> that nobody trusts him anymore; but judging by people's reactions, 
> nobody except Dumbledore and Hagrid did trust him to begin with.

Potioncat:
He gazes at DD. DD who had just told Draco that Draco is dependent on 
his mercies. DD who would rather sacrifice himself at this point than 
lose Snape and Draco. (Snape I can understand, DD's concern for Draco 
is more merciful than I can imagine.)

DD would save himself over Snape if he was well and able to continue 
the fight but he seems to be near death. If Snape dies, so does DD. I 
think there is some communication between DD and Snape at this point. 
DD sacrifices himself just like Ron did in the chess game. Just as 
Ron tells Harry and Hermione what moves they must make after the 
Knight is taken, I think DD has told Snape to make certain moves 
after the Rook( castle)  is taken
> 

>Sigune: 
> The look Snape and Dumbledore exchange on the battlement is to me 
the 
> most chilling moment of Half-Blood Prince. If my assumption is 
> correct and Snape has kept the third clause of the Unbreakable Vow 
> from Dumbledore, then those few seconds are even more heart-
breaking 
> than I found them at first sight. When Dumbledore whispers
> "Severus 
 
> please 
" he is not pleading for his life, because he is not
> afraid 
> to die; neither is he asking Snape to kill him as arranged, because 
> there was no such arrangement. What he means is, "please
> don't tell 
> me I was wrong about you all the time – that I have confided in
> you 
> when you were not worthy of my faith – that I have defended you 
> against others when they were right in their suspicions."

Potioncat:
If you are right, this is the most heartbreaking scene. However, I 
hope it is that Snape has been manipulated once again, and DD has set 
it up so that Snape's act will have some further meaning and will be 
shown to be to the Order's advantage. 

It appeared to be very important to DD that Draco not commit murder. 
I can't understand why DD would want Snape to perform an AK either, 
unless this is another sacrifice. Better  for Snape to perform one 
more black deed than for Draco to commit the first one.

 I don't want to pull in the discussion on whether Snape really 
performed an AK in this post, but I will add this. DD died with a 
peaceful expression on his face. He knew he was about to die, he 
spoke to Severus, then he was hit by a spell and fell(drifted?) off 
the tower. I don't think being murdered or falling to your death 
would leave a peaceful expression.

What ever Snape did, AK or Impedimenta or something else, it was what 
DD wanted. He was at peace. DD saw his own death as a necessary event 
in the battle. And I think he saw it as a wise move.

In summary...I agree with much of Sigune's post. It certainly fits 
Snape's personality that he wouldn't tell DD; and he isn't destined 
for greatness in spite of his mind. But I think DD had an  idea of 
what was going on and had made his own plans for different scenarios.

Potioncat who asks readers to excuse the fragmented nature of this 
post: young one is board and has been patient far longer than could 
be expected.