Harry's detention - James saved Snape's life incident

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 135949

>
> > colebiancardi:
> >
> > but what Sirius did was a crime - something that should have gotten
> > him expelled. ...edit Lupin quote....
> >
> > so, Snape COULD have been killed or turned into a werewolf. And
> > James's life was in great danger too, of either being killed or
> > turned. What Sirius did was inexcusable - despite Snape trying to
> > get them expelled, there is nothing in the books that has Snape
> > trying to kill any of his classmates in school. Why DD didn't
> > expell him, I don't know...
> >
> > colebiancardi
>
> bboyminn:
>
> Why was it a crime? Why was it attempted murder? Sirius didn't throw
> Snape to the 'wolves'. Snape went by his own choice and of his own
> accord knowing full well that he was acting against the wishes of the
> administration. All Sirius did was tell him how to get past the
> Whomping Willow. How is that a crime?
>

Because Sirius KNEW that Lupin was dangerous. Snape did not. I
quoted the passage from Lupin, because EVEN Lupin knew it could have
killed both Snape & James. James saved Snape's life, at great risk to
his own....Hence, the life-debt that Snape owed James. Those things
aren't given out lightly. Sirius set up Snape - he knew Snape would
go looking. True, Snape didn't HAVE to go, he could have stayed in
his dorm. But Sirius knew that Snape would go - he taunted him -
probably even called him coward. And we know what 16 year old boys
are like - hell, even some grown men & women have issues being called
a coward. Snape wanted to know what Lupin was up to - he did not
know that Lupin was a werewolf. If he had known, he wouldn't have
gone. I don't think it even crossed his mind that Sirius would go so
low as to *murder* him. Perhaps Sirius didn't think that Snape would
get hurt - perhaps he thought as you have posted - Snape has his wand,
knows magic, and so forth. But, remember, even the MMPPW couldn't
face Lupin as themselves when Lupin turned into a werewolf. They had
to go to their animal forms. Snape, as far as we know, is not an
Animagus.

The crime is the intent. Even James knew this, as although he loathed
Snape as much as Sirius did, he(James) went after Snape to stop him
from getting killed.

> Steve/bboyminn
> If Snape had minded his own business and followed the obvious rules,
> he never would have been in danger. So how does that make Sirius a
> criminal?

see my above post. It is a crime. Sirius knew that Lupin was a
werewolf - Snape did not. Sirius negected to tell Snape this
important bit of information - if he did, Snape would not have gone.

> > Steve/bboyminn
> Now, don't get me wrong, we all know there was a little more to it
> than that. Sirius certainly had a malicious intent in telling Snape
> how to get past the Tree. I'm sure he knew the Snape's curiousity
> would absolutely make him go into the tunnel, but none the less Snape
> made that choice on his own; no one forced him.

Snape is a busy-body. That is not a crime. Sirius intended for Snape
to get hurt or killed or turned into a werewolf. That is a crime.

> Steve/bboyminn
>
> Further, as I already said, we don't know that Sirius intended Snape
> to be harmed.

Oh please - p 356 Am.Ed hardcover PoA
Lupin..."He had his reasons...you see, Sirius played a trick on him
which nearly killed him, a trick which involved me -- "
Black made a derisive noise
"It served him right", he sneered. "Sneaking around, trying to find
out what we were up to...hoping he would get us expelled..."

sounds to me that Sirius, even 20 years later, didn't care if Snape
lived or died that night.

> Steve/bboyminn
> Remember, Snape wasn't hog-tied and throw into the
> tunnel. If anything the most recent book (HBP) shows us the extreme
> nature of Snape's genius and wizardly skills. He was more than capable
> of defending himself. True, he still could have gotten hurt; but STILL
> he wasn't defenseless either.

hmmm...somehow, Lupin disagrees with that assessment, as he stated
that James saved Snape's life, at great risk to his own. Seems like 2
boys could have died that evening due to Sirius's little "prank".

> Steve/bboyminn

What Sirius did is inexcusable. He got away with something that other
Hogwart's students probably would have gotten expelled for. Look at
Hagrid's offense and look how he got kicked out. Sirius knew - he
knew that Lupin was a werewolf, he knew Snape would go looking and he
knew that Snape would get hurt, as it seems that even a wizard (and an
underaged one at that) with a wand is no match for a werewolf.

Snape should not have gone looking, but Sirius should have never told
him anything about the Whomping Willow, as he neglected to tell Snape
that oh, by the way, Lupin will be a fully-grown werewolf when you
meet up with him.

colebiancardi
(who really likes the adult Sirius, but hates teen Sirius - as he was
a bored bully)


added onto to Juli's post about "big bad snape"
>>s to this last sentence, I agree that Dumbledore loved Severus, but
>>not only him. I'm sure someone else (besides his mother) loved him.
>>A friend, a girlfriend, someone. I mean, I think I would have fallen
>>for a guy like him in high school: the weird kid, the unpopular,
>>smart, wicked sense of humor, sexy (IMO, not Rickman)... He must
>>have been a "catch".

I had to LOL outloud at this comment, sorry Juli....no offense meant.
 But I agree on the 1st 3 points - weird, unpopular, smart.

but wicked sense of humor?  What we have been exposed to in the books,
Snape's *humor* degrades other people - lesser ones at that - the
children he teaches.  How is that even remotely amusing?  He is
sadistic, not sarcastic.  and Sexy?  Rowling goes out of her way to
make him not *sexy* - and even though I have a very big weakness and
fondness for men with large noses, the rest of Snape's description of
how he looks is not favorable at all - greasy and lank hair, sallow
skin, yellow and uneven teeth, and a hooked nose.  Even when he was a
teen, he "had a stringy, pallid look about him, like a plant kept in
the dark".

Now, I am no beauty-queen(like Ginny (LOL)), but I think even I would
get a better description of my looks than Snape did :)


>> I would have liked to go out with him ;) Just
>>because someone knows a lot of dark spells it doesn't mean he's a
>>evil wizard. 

but Snape did turn to become an evil wizard - he became a Death Eater.
   What he picked up at Hogwarts and what he learned from his
*connections* with the Malfoys, made him become evil.    
 
don't get me wrong - Snape is far more the interesting character
because of these flaws.  But I still think the person who loved him
was his mum

cole