Harry, Ginny, and age appropriateness

[phoenixgod2000]

No: HPFGUIDX 136095

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Marianne S." 
<schumar1999 at y...> wrote:
> Other H/G "shippers" and I have already posted evidence from HBP 
that show our 
> satisfaction with Harry and Ginny's relationship. Many have said 
that they prefer not to 
> have every detail of their private time together, and actions such 
as the way Ginny's look 
> shows complete understanding and acceptance, the way she can 
communicate with  Harry 
> by touch, and the intimacy that they share right in front of Ron 
(leaning on Harry's leg, 
> kissing him good night), all show a good deal of maturity and age 
appropriate behavior for 
> a relationship that has futur3e potential. 

True. Those do show maturity and age appropriate behavior. But those 
are not conversations, dates, meetings, or interludes which tell me 
how they got to that level of age appropiate behavior and maturity. 
We got a lot of details on the gloriously written trainwreck that 
was H/C and almost nothing on the supposedly better relationship of 
H/G. Hell, the only date we saw Harry go on in the entire book was 
with Luna (best female character in the story, imo), and we got more 
Harry scenes alone with Hermione than we did with Harry and his 
redheaded gf and yet we are supposed to believe that they connected 
on a meaningful level? By what twisted logic does that hero of the 
story spending almost no onscreen time with his LI count as a good 
love plot?

We got:  Harry pinning away over Ginny(way to show a strong guy 
JKR)...to...Harry and Ginny kissing over quiddich and agreeing to go 
on a walk together...to...several weeks later where they are already 
an established couple.  

We waited half the damn book for Harry to make his move on Ginny and 
she cheats us out of the scene where he finally puts his moves on 
her? I hate Ginny. I hate the ship Harry/Ginny.  But that scene, 
that walk that we were cheated out of could have been amazing. It 
could have sold me on their ship completely.  It was bad writing 
that we didn't get to see it. It was cheating and it was more than 
slightly offensive to me. I don't want to buy books where I have to 
competely fill in the blanks with my own version of character 
development.

I would be even madder if it was a ship that I actually liked being 
shortchanged that way. I don't understand how any H/G fan could have 
been in the least bit satisfied by that overly vague interpretation 
of what they would be like together.  Make the book ten pages longer 
next time and include a few scenes that make me actually like the 
girl you're pairing the hero of the story off with.

> That aside, we also have to not forget the age (and gender) 
appropriateness for Harry 
> Potter's READERS. 

<snip young potterphile stuff>

I think this is a fallacious arguement. The average age of a harry 
potter fan is older than your two examples. Neither kid you are 
talking about was even born when the first book showed up. someone 
who read SS when he/she was ten would be a college graduate by now. 
So I think its fair to hold her to a more mature standard of book 
than one that would also cater to kids who still think girls have 
cooties. 

Secondly, I don't care about what kids think about the story. I'm 
reading the story for my own personal enjoyment. I'm holding the 
story to my standards, not children's standards.

Thirdly, if I did care, I certainly wouldn't want Ginny to be a role 
model for any young girl in my charge. Ginny was pretty much a flat 
out bullying *$&%& in the book.  Girl who was pulling those stunts 
anywhere near me as a teacher would get detention for a month.

Yeah, I know, I'm mean guy :)

> I wouldn't want JKR to write a romance novel, or even a book that 
forces people to accept 
> only one interpretation of the time that Harry and Ginny spent 
together. Certainly a 12 
> year old is going to have a different idea of what happened than 
myself, and  I'm sure 
> when both (and most) kids are older, they'll be able to read into 
it what they want. It was 
> unnecessary to show every kiss, every touch, every cuddle, every 
private word
 for the 
> very facts that it would potentially turn OFF readers

I don't think any of the people here are complaining because HP 
isn't enough of a romance or that we aren't seeing them kiss enough. 
I think what a lot of people are complaining about is that they feel 
cheated out of seeing the key scenes that build their relationship. 
We miss the aftermath of the kiss and their walk around the lake. We 
miss them having talks where they sort out their issues. We see that 
they are a couple and miss everything that makes them one.

And for the record, there should only be one interpretation of the 
time Harry and Ginny spent together. That's what I'm paying her for. 
We should know what happened with them according to canon. Leaving 
it open to interpretation is, to put it kindly, silly.  By that 
logic the Voldemort Harry confrontation should be done really 
vaguely too, just so people can wonder if Harry lived or died.

the 
> kind of healthy progression of attraction, denial, and then 
definite connection and obvious 
> intimacy Harry has with Ginny. So, let's allow JKR to satisfy the 
majority of her readers, 
> who are certainly younger than us, by giving them enough proof 
that Ginny makes Harry 
> happy 

But that is my problem. we know that Ginny makes Harry happy but we 
have no idea why. And we as the observer aren't really given a 
chance to connect with Ginny the way we have with other characters.  
We are told in a scenes that they've been together for a while and 
like to spend time around each other but we never see any of the 
events that help to create the bond they supposedly share with each 
other by the end. Why does Ginny understand Harry?  What do they 
talk about? Have they ever talked about Voldemort or the DoM? Did 
Ginny write to molly about them dating? did Bill and Fleur know? Do 
they ever fight? What do they do every day? A few scenes with them 
talking or practicing flying together would have gone a long way to 
selling me on their twu luv. But we didn't get any of those scenes. 
All we got was they've been dating for a few weeks and like each 
other.

just about anyone would fail a creative writing class pulling that 
crap.

I don't want HP to become a romance story. I don't think it needs to 
be. But I take romantic subplots seriously in whatever stories I 
read or tv shows I watch because I cannot stand watching/reading 
stories where the main character--someone I inevitablly like--is 
with a character I hate. It pulls me out of the story. However a 
writer chooses to deal with Romance, it would be handled deftly and 
in a way that shows why the characters like each other. the fact 
they do is irrelavent. the important part is the *why*. It's an 
important part of character building in a story.

phoenixgod2000